Upgrade thoughts - new job

[Cra]

Hi

I am fortunate to have been given an opportunity with a local real estate agent in a reasonably nice part of Sydney’s west. Currently I am working a fairly senior role in retail/fast food outlet, so I know a bit about fashionable , quality customer facing work wear. But my friend suggested I check around in this forum anyway before starting my new position.



I already have a nice suit so In particular I’d like to get everyone’s views on shoes shirts belts and so on. I currently rock a nice pair of full leather shoes from Julius Marlow. But my friend says I should consider a high end pair of shoes for my new role because of the more cashed up client base I’ll be working with (eg maybe Aquila or Florsheim). While I think this is probably overkill, I am interested in everyone’s thoughts here.



I don’t like to skimp on my shirts (mainly custom tailored Tarocash and the like), but I want to make sure my belt matches my shoes nicely. So would also appreciate thoughts on a good match there.



Once again, I am fairly confident in my knowledge of fashion so really hoping for some feedback / affirmation of the path I’m looking to go down.



Job starts in 2 weeks.



Thanks in advance.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

Please post a photo of your Julius Marlow here.

Yes definitely get a better pair of shoes if you can afford it. Loake 1880 etc, 2 pairs.

 

[Cra]

Thank you. Please see attached. As you can see they are a very refined shoe already so I might be overthinking it.

Ps I had a look at the Loake shoes you mentioned and I am not sure if it is a joke but I can’t imagine anyone who would have the money or inclination to pay that much for a pair of shoes. Unless they are a billionaire like Donald Trump or John Shnatter.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

^^^
the key is to get 2 good quality shoes that will look, last, and feel good for many years to come. When people start wearing shoes like that many realise it is one of the best moves they ever made; rarely is there a regret. Good shoes last a very long time so it is good to do things properly and buy quality that lasts. A well made properly fitted shoe will feel so much better than those Marlow. You are in your shoes all day, so look the part and do it right.

Many decent men's shoes these days are $500 or more including R.M.Williams. Quality cost a bit of money.

btw, Donald Trump wears Artioli, his shoes are about $3,500 ASD.

 

[TheIronDandy]

Thank you. Please see attached. As you can see they are a very refined shoe already so I might be overthinking it.

Ps I had a look at the Loake shoes you mentioned and I am not sure if it is a joke but I can’t imagine anyone who would have the money or inclination to pay that much for a pair of shoes. Unless they are a billionaire like Donald Trump or John Shnatter.

You probably won't like the advice you're going to get here, then. Loake is considered "entry level" craft shoes (if you want to be outraged, google Edward Green or St Crispin shoes). I don't think anyone here is a billionaire, but people here consider clothes (especially clothes made the "traditional way") as an interest, and just like some people buy hand-made watches, vintage wine or restore classic cars, some people here buy hand-tailored jackets and bench-made shoes. But this only makes sense if you're actually interested in how things are made.

But enough about that: the good news is, you really don't have to worry so much. If you have a suit that fits you, shirts that fit you, and accessories that don't look too outrageous, you're already doing better than most. Your shoes look fine - they're a bit of a showy, modern style (quite different from what people here recommend) but if you're young and a bit fashion-forward, I wouldn't worry about it. Outside of fussy men on the internet, most people won't think about it. You might want to consider getting a second pair of nice shoes simply because shoes do better if they get a day of rest between wears, and in that case I would suggest you get a pair of classic lace-ups in case you want to go for a more classic look.

Your current shoes probably won't last 10+ years of heavy wear and may not shine up as nicely as billionaire shoes, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're going for. It sounds like you want some respectable looking shoes for your new job. Not everyone has to be a black-belt shoeshiner.

Speaking of belts, people worry too much about things like belts going with shoes: just make sure your belt isn't too wide or thick (avoid 4+ cm wide belts in thick leather if you're wearing a suit), and that the tone of the belt and the shoes aren't TOO different (dark brown and black are usually fine together, but avoid things like sleek black leather and bright tan suede in combination).

Best style advice remains to make sure that everything fits (too tight or clearly oversized clothes rarely look good, outside of specific looks), keep accessories simple and don't allow them to get too distracting. Your clothes, after all, should make YOU look good, not steal the show.

 

[Son Of Saphir]

You probably won't like the advice you're going to get here, then. Loake is considered "entry level" craft shoes (if you want to be outraged, google Edward Green or St Crispin shoes).

Was waiting for this. It is true, Loake is considered at the bottom end of the decent shoes, ie, the entry level one takes when they start to get into better shoes. Most of the better entry level shoes are over $500, but it will be the best $500 you will ever spend.

You want to see some higher end shoes?

Shoemaking collection

stefanobemer.com

Some shoe prices go far higher than that. Are they worth it? You better believe it.

Many people here will buy shoes over $500. Not for boasting rights, but because they want a shoe they can wear for the next 20 years that will be comfortable and still look great.

Quite a number of people here buy shoes well over $1,000. These people aren't stupid, they know it is important to have good footwear with proper support, and made from good materials. Your feet do feel the difference,and once you take this step you can never go back.

When you buy $500 shoes the world changes.
When you buy $1,000 shoes you will never see shoes in the same way.
When you buy $100 shoes, you haven't even begun to experience what a shoe is all about.

You buy two Loakes and you will never buy Marlow again.

 

[TheIronDandy]

Was waiting for this. It is true, Loake is considered at the bottom end of the decent shoes, ie, the entry level one takes when they start to get into better shoes. Most of the better entry level shoes are over $500, but it will be the best $500 you will ever spend.

You want to see some higher end shoes?

Shoemaking collection

stefanobemer.com

Some shoe prices go far higher than that. Are they worth it? You better believe it.

Many people here will buy shoes over $500. Not for boasting rights, but because they want a shoe they can wear for the next 20 years that will be comfortable and still look great.

Quite a number of people here buy shoes well over $1,000. These people aren't stupid, they know it is important to have good footwear with proper support, and made from good materials. Your feet do feel the difference,and once you take this step you can never go back.

When you buy $500 shoes the world changes.
When you buy $1,000 shoes you will never see shoes in the same way.
When you buy $100 shoes, you haven't even begun to experience what a shoe is all about.

You buy two Loakes and you will never buy Marlow again.

I went pretty deep down that rabbit hole: 4 pairs of bespoke from Maftei over a few years, in addition to shoes from Loake and C&J.

But most days, I walk around in my suede loafers or chukkas from Myrqvist (around the $250-300 mark). The fact that I live in a city where we carpet-bomb the streets with salt and gravel every time there are more than 2 snowflakes in the air has probably played a part. Nowadays, I'd rather buy a pair of $300 shoes and spend a bit extra on shoe care products. Saphir very good.

 

[fpm9]

I understand the price point of what is considered good entry level shoes can sound steep. But if these are not in your budget, I recommend trying to find a second-hand pair in good condition, rather than a new pair of cheap shoes. I have bought several pair of used but barely worn shoes are rarely regretted it.

 

[onemoretime]

Get a pair of dark brown shoes in a more classic style. I agree with above that your best value is a pair of quality shoes from Ebay or other pre-owned sources (for the same money or less as a pair of new cheap shoes).

 

[William Kazak]

You can find new Florsheim shoes on eBay for $150 and even less. I found wingtips and loafers.

 

[aoman]

I work with a lot of real estate agents in the luxury space. I don't know Australia as well as conservative Boston, but the very square-toe on your current shoe is not a style that speaks to the taste level of a more discerning buyer. There's a chance your friend sent you here for a reason.

Most of the men on this forum dress for themselves because they are passionate (as I do). I also dress to speak to my clients that we share elevated taste and that I can be trusted, and that I have the worldly experience to help them make decisions. It may sound shallow, but it's not. I don't trust a skinny chef, nor a poorly dressed person who is telling me that they can guide me in a matter of taste.

Sorry to be harsh. I absolutely agree in looking for a lightly used pair very comfortable, almond or round-toe cap-toe in a dark brown or black. Don't be afraid of a thin rubber sole, it'll serve you well going from building to building and will wear longer, helping your investment last longer. It's an investment in yourself and your future clients will respect it.

 

[JGinHK]

Your Image matters, particularly in professional sectors. People judge you by your appearance, and the clothes you wear can say a lot about you. People look at you and make snap judgments; I am hoping for prudent, experienced, and confident as opposed to finely tailored, flashy, or fashionable.
Work clothes are an investment just like knives for a chef, or tool belt for a carpenter. Shoes and Ties last forever, but suit jackets and trousers not so much.. Hence, invest in high quality stuff that doesn't need to be repurchased every 2-3 years. Avoid luxury brands shoes and suits Loro, Brunello, Tom Ford, Purple Lable make great products but the value isn't there. The LVMH, Kerring, etc houses make products that needed be replaced often.

Star w/the shoes:
If you can, Buy a pair of John Lobb (or similar brand) oxfords and/or loafers, get them double-souled and in black. Get a nice pair of soft drivers from Car Shoe in dark brown for the weekend. In any case, 1 oxford, 1 loafer british double soul, calf skin black. 1 soft loafer in dark brown (I like car shows). Your shoes should get 50-70% of your total clothes budget.
I've bought two pair of Lopez in 2016 (USD approx 2,200 ea). They have been resold, but they get alternated and I can't imagine switching them out. Also, they are extremely comfortable, you can walk through an airport and not notice your wearing dress shoes.

Clothing:
I can't stress this enough. If you are outside and active, your best bet would be to forego standard suits. Why, the trousers tend to wear out and you are left with lots of "blazers". Here's what I do. I invest in two navy blazers: one, a light-weight, hopsack fabric with an unstructured fit, and the second a heavier cashmere w/a little bit more structure than the first for the cooler months. I am in Hong Kong and Shanghai where purchasing your own tailored clothes is fairly easy and affordable. But quality brands HK/SH tailors ape have affordable online made-to-measure, and so do the tailors in HK. WW Chans, Ascott Chang, A-Man Hing Cheong.

-Hopsack (Loropaina, on sale) Made by WW Chan in 2018 for approx. USD 1200
-Cashmere (Scabal) Also made by WW Chan in 2012 for approx. USD 2,500

I purchase four pairs of dark gray (think Hunstman dark gray) slacks in an alfresco fabric. Pull-tabs on the side. These are not a significant portion of the budget so choose your tailor accordingly. I have a a pair from a suit I really liked and give them to a low cost tailor and keep making them. These cost about USD 60 each.
Shirts. I spent a wasteful amount of money on a Charvet shirt years ago. I give it to my tailor (same for the pants) and have them copy them. I only get oxford blue (cotton-linen blend, i don't remember if it's Thomas Mason or someother), pocket, soft, button-down collar. I buy six twice a year. These cost around USD 130 each.

Ties. Charvet, Kiton, Turnbull & Asser, Paul Stewart. Quality is key and These usually cost 250-300 each. Remember, you'll have your shoes and ties forever. If you need to wear a tie, Nothing feels better than putting on a tie that has ******* story. Mine have seen some fucked up days and personal triumphs, most are over 10 years old and I don't buy more than 1 a year now.
This has taken +20 years of trial and error; I hope it helps, and I am always happy to recommend tailors.

 

[Satmoche]

Your Image matters, particularly in professional sectors. People judge you by your appearance, and the clothes you wear can say a lot about you. People look at you and make snap judgments; I am hoping for prudent, experienced, and confident as opposed to finely tailored, flashy, or fashionable.
Work clothes are an investment just like knives for a chef, or tool belt for a carpenter. Shoes and Ties last forever, but suit jackets and trousers not so much.. Hence, invest in high quality stuff that doesn't need to be repurchased every 2-3 years. Avoid luxury brands shoes and suits Loro, Brunello, Tom Ford, Purple Lable make great products but the value isn't there. The LVMH, Kerring, etc houses make products that needed be replaced often.

Star w/the shoes:
If you can, Buy a pair of John Lobb (or similar brand) oxfords and/or loafers, get them double-souled and in black. Get a nice pair of soft drivers from Car Shoe in dark brown for the weekend. In any case, 1 oxford, 1 loafer british double soul, calf skin black. 1 soft loafer in dark brown (I like car shows). Your shoes should get 50-70% of your total clothes budget.
I've bought two pair of Lopez in 2016 (USD approx 2,200 ea). They have been resold, but they get alternated and I can't imagine switching them out. Also, they are extremely comfortable, you can walk through an airport and not notice your wearing dress shoes.

Clothing:
I can't stress this enough. If you are outside and active, your best bet would be to forego standard suits. Why, the trousers tend to wear out and you are left with lots of "blazers". Here's what I do. I invest in two navy blazers: one, a light-weight, hopsack fabric with an unstructured fit, and the second a heavier cashmere w/a little bit more structure than the first for the cooler months. I am in Hong Kong and Shanghai where purchasing your own tailored clothes is fairly easy and affordable. But quality brands HK/SH tailors ape have affordable online made-to-measure, and so do the tailors in HK. WW Chans, Ascott Chang, A-Man Hing Cheong.

-Hopsack (Loropaina, on sale) Made by WW Chan in 2018 for approx. USD 1200
-Cashmere (Scabal) Also made by WW Chan in 2012 for approx. USD 2,500

I purchase four pairs of dark gray (think Hunstman dark gray) slacks in an alfresco fabric. Pull-tabs on the side. These are not a significant portion of the budget so choose your tailor accordingly. I have a a pair from a suit I really liked and give them to a low cost tailor and keep making them. These cost about USD 60 each.
Shirts. I spent a wasteful amount of money on a Charvet shirt years ago. I give it to my tailor (same for the pants) and have them copy them. I only get oxford blue (cotton-linen blend, i don't remember if it's Thomas Mason or someother), pocket, soft, button-down collar. I buy six twice a year. These cost around USD 130 each.

Ties. Charvet, Kiton, Turnbull & Asser, Paul Stewart. Quality is key and These usually cost 250-300 each. Remember, you'll have your shoes and ties forever. If you need to wear a tie, Nothing feels better than putting on a tie that has ******* story. Mine have seen some fucked up days and personal triumphs, most are over 10 years old and I don't buy more than 1 a year now.
This has taken +20 years of trial and error; I hope it helps, and I am always happy to recommend tailors.

I appreciate that you are dropping great names which he can aspire to buy, one day, but OP has not even dipped one toe in the pond yet.
I would save the high-end craftsmen for later once he has really developed a taste of what he likes and what looks good on him.
I would, nonetheless, agree that buying well-made items is the way forward if you work with "cashed up client based" as you are quite likely to run into people who will judge you instantly based on your outfit.

What are the other men wearing at the place where you will be working for? It is definitely worth having a look beforehand.

First, you must really know what your size is for all clothing, including shoes. This will make your purchases swift and trouble free, in future.
Make sure that your clothes fit your body well and that they are comfortable.
Start with your basic items and do your best to refrain from buying bolder patterns and colours, that can wait for now.

Build your wardrobe progressively to have enough quality items that will last you a long time.

Shirts:
Buy cutaway collar shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt. It is a good start as they remain affordable and you will thus be able to see what colours and patterns you enjoy wearing. Get your plain white and blue shirts, striped will be formal too.
They may get them altered for you. Make sure that they are comfortable when sitting down.
They also sell ties. They are not well-made but, again, it will suffice for the time being.

Suits:
- SuitSupply is your best start. They have shops in Australia. Be mindful that some sales associates will push sell 'slim' fits. I would personally advise to try a "classic suit" which has room in the chest and legs.
Ideally, you would have a suit for everyday of the week, but for now, 2 or 3 will suffice as you can worn separates. Get plain suits for now, 1 navy, 1 mid-grey and 1 charcoal. You may want to get shirts from there too.
- P. Johnson offers 'made-to-measure' services for shirts and suits. You may want to have a look once you have a solid wardrobe.

Shoes:
- Allen Edmonds
- Loake
- Meermin if on a budget
- Crockett & Jones if your budget allows it. Check out Double Monk which has a brick and mortar store in Sydney. They sell other high-end products. I would definitely consider a visit and ask for advice there.

EDIT: Do check out the post " AUSTRALIAN MEMBERS - PART II - IF YOU READ THE FIRST POST, YOU'LL GET WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT."

 

[jko]

Shirts. I buy six twice a year.

That is one shirt per month. What on earth are you doing with your shirts that they only last one month?

 

[Son Of Saphir]

The OP has left and is never coming back!