Unusual Legal question

[Cavalier]

My neighbors have been telling interested buyers/agents in my late father's house that he committed suicide. They have no business talking to them, but on top of that, it is completely untrue (my dad died of a heart attack).

The house has been on the market for a year now since his death, it's already in the position of being a short sale. And apparently they have been telling this hearsay to all interested parties.

My lawyer is not one to get involved in hearsay cases like this, but I am just now becoming aware of the extent of this situation and am lividly pissed.

Any advice?

*edit* As far as an official paper trail, an offer came in, the buyer's realitor wrote that the buying party was aware of a suicide. He took no due diligence in researching the matter in any way. He says he was told this hearsay by the neighbor, we are getting this in writting.

The neighbors are two prominent doctors at the Cleveland Clinic. I am 99% sure when I come to them, and show them the autopsy they will will put in writing they heard this from the local police on his day of death. The police have no reason speculating about the way he died, especially when they were clearly wrong (he had clogged arteries/blocked valves in his heart).


Do I have any recourse besides collecting written apologies?

 

[Wrigglez]

Before any legal involvement, i would go over and make a cool headed house call and explain to them that potential buyers have been concerned about the demise of the former occupant (understand also I don’t mean any harm and my sincere wishes go to you for your loss) the likely result is that they will deny it in which case they may there after stop spouting 'hear say' due to embarrassment or fess up to the claims and apologise, these things generally don’t go so well (plus rather expensive) when lawyers get involved. However, you could get your lawyer to write a formal letter to the neighbours 'after' your talk if they continue. As a friend and lawyer once said to me, people generally '$hit' themselves when they receive a formal letter from a law firm. It’s also a cheaper option than having a lawyer physically represent you in person.
Best of luck with the sale.
Regards.

 

[CDFS]

It seems to me that this could be construed as a tort. For this to be a tort and any neighbours to be financially liable you would have to proof they said such things and that because they said such things you are in a worse situation than you would have been if the would have kept silent. Not easy, I'm thinking.

Or so it would be if you lived on my side of the pond, which I'm assuming you don't

Harsh letters with impressing letterheads can make a difference.

 

[Cavalier]

Like I said, they are both well-to do MD specialists at Cleveland Clinic.

They have gone out of there way to say this lie to my personal real estate agent in the past. We have told our agent that this is completely false. I am also assuming the buyer's agent will point them out in writting as where they learned this information.


I highly doubt they will deny it, and will oblige to issue a written admission/apology. I suspect they will also put in writing that they heard this from the local police station.

As soon as I show them an autopsy report, I know they will stop spreading these lies-- it's not like we ever had a problem with them. In fact, they only moved in a month or two before my father passed away and we only spoke one. I am nearly certain they spoke with the police, and am fairly certain they will put that in writing.

The fact, that everyone has been so quick to put hearsay on to paper shocks me. Any one could have done due diligence and researched the situation and seen clearly they are wrong.

 

[Busa Dave]

Easy fix---go and have a CIVIL conversation with them and let them know that their behavior is not acceptable and is causing you financial harm. Then have your Counsel send them a cease and desist letter---should take care of it.

 

[BP348]

Originally Posted by Busa Dave

Easy fix---go and have a CIVIL conversation with them and let them know that their behavior is not acceptable and is causing you financial harm. Then have your Counsel send them a cease and desist letter---should take care of it.

+1

I would go ask them why they are telling potential buyers this lie. If they believe that your father committed suicide then you can explain the real cause of death to them. If they still tell people the lie after that then follow up with the letter from the lawyer. As "well off" doctors I'm sure they don't want to be involved in a civil suit.

 

[AR_Six]

I would think a legal remedy in this case would have to be for pure economic loss, slander of title or some such. But why make this a legal issue in the first place? Moreover, why are they going out of their way to tell people how the former occupant died...

 

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by JD_May

I would think a legal remedy in this case would have to be for pure economic loss, slander of title or some such. But why make this a legal issue in the first place? Moreover, why are they going out of their way to tell people how the former occupant died...
The only reason I am angry to the point of making it a legal issue, is the offer is 25% less then asking price. Asking price is 20% less then what we paid (we are just trying to get rid of it). On our disclosure we make no mention of suicide (because there was none), but the buyer's agent added a sheet including the fact that the potential buyers were aware of suicide by previous owner. I suspect they have been telling this to everyone who comes by at this point. I suspect the neighbors like gossiping (my impression), and it's causing my financial harm.

 

[jagmqt]

oops.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

The only reason I am angry to the point of making it a legal issue, is the offer is 25% less then asking price. Asking price is 20% less then what we paid (we are just trying to get rid of it). On our disclosure we make no mention of suicide (because there was none), but the buyer's agent added a sheet including the fact that the potential buyers were aware of suicide by previous owner. I suspect they have been telling this to everyone who comes by at this point. I suspect the neighbors like gossiping (my impression), and it's causing my financial harm.
When was the house purchased? How does the offer price match to comps?

Originally Posted by Cavalier

The house has been on the market for a year now since his death, it's already in the position of being a short sale.
If it was your father's house, you can't be held liable for the debt. You said it's in a short sale situation, so you're already asking for less than the balance of the mortgage. Might the majority of the problem be market conditions and timing of the purchase of the property by your father? Further, to my experience, autopsies are only done in cases of death where there is actual suspicion of foul play. If you die at home, it's not an automatic autopsy. Something had to trigger that. So someone, in a position to affect events, had a solid suspicion that was not a death by natural cause.

 

[Slopho]

Have you thought about peeing on their car?

 

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

When was the house purchased? How does the offer price match to comps? If it was your father's house, you can't be held liable for the debt. You said it's in a short sale situation, so you're already asking for less than the balance of the mortgage. Might the majority of the problem be market conditions and timing of the purchase of the property by your father? Further, to my experience, autopsies are only done in cases of death where there is actual suspicion of foul play. If you die at home, it's not an automatic autopsy. Something had to trigger that. So someone, in a position to affect events, had a solid suspicion that was not a death by natural cause.
House was purchased in 02, so we do realize we paid a high price. It's 5 bed rooms, gourmet kitchen, full basement, 6 acres, 5+ car garage, in ground pool, elaborate grounds (putting green, streams, jogging trails). For comparison, a little research on the buyer shows purchased their pre-fabricated 3 bed room, 2 bath 2200 sq foot house on 3/4 of an acre in a crappy tree-less subdivision in '06 for $80,000 more then they just offered us. I also should mention they asked for $10,000 of chattel to be included (keep in mind this is a short sale). There is no comparable home available for their offer, they are looking for a steal. The estate is liable for the debt. We realize we are taking a loss, but 25% below the already rock bottom asking price is completely unrealistic. The asking price is a steal as it is. Gossiping neighbors taking it on themselves to inform interested buyers and agents of a suicide is surely not helping the sale of the home. There was an autopsy because he was young, had not been to a doctor in 10+ years, had no diagnosed conditions and had just left his job as a top executive at a 200+ employee company two weeks prior (and was amid buy-out discussion). The dick head small town police may have suspected foul play-- that doesn't know they mean ****, and certainly gives them no right to tell neighbors he committed suicide.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

House was purchased in 02, so we do realize we paid a high price. It's 5 bed rooms, gourmet kitchen, full basement, 6 acres, 5+ car garage, in ground pool, elaborate grounds (putting green, streams, jogging trails). For comparison, a little research on the buyer shows purchased their pre-fabricated 3 bed room, 2 bath 2200 sq foot house on 3/4 of an acre in a crappy tree-less subdivision in '06 for $80,000 more then they just offered us. I also should mention they asked for $10,000 of chattel to be included (keep in mind this is a short sale). There is no comparable home available for their offer, they are looking for a steal. The estate is liable for the debt. We realize we are taking a loss, but 25% below the already rock bottom asking price is completely unrealistic. The asking price is a steal as it is. Gossiping neighbors taking it on themselves to inform interested buyers and agents of a suicide is surely not helping the sale of the home. There was an autopsy because he was young, had not been to a doctor in 10+ years, had no diagnosed conditions and had just left his job as a top executive at a 200+ employee company two weeks prior (and was amid buy-out discussion). The dick head small town police may have suspected foul play-- that doesn't know they mean ****, and certainly gives them no right to tell neighbors he committed suicide.
Of course they are looking for a steal; everyone buying today is looking for a steal. I know my recent land purchase was 33 cents on the dollar vs. pre-bubble prices. Given what you said, these people just bought three years ago, they need to get a steal or can't buy anything, since they bought probably at the very peak of the RE bubble. And those are some motivated neighbors. I'll assume their property is similar to your father's, so given the size of the estates, that's a pretty serious walk to go talk to strangers looking at a house. Given the market conditions, I'd figure those neighbors would have a vested interest in getting that house sold, and for a good price. G'luck with all this and sorry to hear about your loss and troubles.

 

[jagmqt]

Originally Posted by JD_May

I would think a legal remedy in this case would have to be for pure economic loss, slander of title or some such. But why make this a legal issue in the first place? Moreover, why are they going out of their way to tell people how the former occupant died...

I think slander of title would be worth having an attorney investigate...

jag

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Further, to my experience, autopsies are only done in cases of death where there is actual suspicion of foul play. If you die at home, it's not an automatic autopsy. Something had to trigger that. So someone, in a position to affect events, had a solid suspicion that was not a death by natural cause.

Not even remotely close to true.