Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[classicalthunde]

The Drapers Ascot 370g is the exact same fabric as the VBC 4ply @kolecho mentioned previously.

Do we know this for sure? I've heard different things on this over time such as a) Drapers is a re-brand of VBC in heavier typically British weights (hence the British sounding name) and also b) that the VBC mill is owned by two families, one of which is the Drapers family who uses the mill half of the time with their own fabric recipe - so same mill, same equipment, different materials/process/composition (i think @Despos mentioned a while back, but i could be wrong)

I don't want to over pay for the same thing for mere branding (also why I'm looking into Lovat Bard as opposed to LL Brisa)...

 

[supern0va]

Do we know this for sure? I've heard different things on this over time such as a) Drapers is a re-brand of VBC in heavier typically British weights (hence the British sounding name) and also b) that the VBC mill is owned by two families, one of which is the Drapers family who uses the mill half of the time with their own fabric recipe - so same mill, same equipment, different materials/process/composition (i think @Despos mentioned a while back, but i could be wrong)

I don't want to over pay for the same thing for mere branding (also why I'm looking into Lovat Bard as opposed to LL Brisa)...

Yes I do know for sure.
If you go to the VBC website, and want to purchase the fabric online, it links to a drapers web link.

 

[gdl203]

Do we know this for sure? I've heard different things on this over time such as a) Drapers is a re-brand of VBC in heavier typically British weights (hence the British sounding name) and also b) that the VBC mill is owned by two families, one of which is the Drapers family who uses the mill half of the time with their own fabric recipe - so same mill, same equipment, different materials/process/composition (i think @Despos mentioned a while back, but i could be wrong)

I don't want to over pay for the same thing for mere branding (also why I'm looking into Lovat Bard as opposed to LL Brisa)...

 

[classicalthunde]

View attachment 1242619

thanks @supern0va and @gdl203! To add a bit of clarity to my original inquiry, I understand that VBC makes a lot (maybe all) of the Drapers fabric - but is there a corresponding VBC book of the same 4-ply open weave traveler fabric or is the only way to get it through the Drapers Ascot book? If there is, @gdl203 as a vendor, is there a significant price difference between the Draper book and the VBC book?

 

[Concordia]

To be fair I have shirts made from both the LL run from Ulster and from Ulster’s own range, and though the designs are the same the quality isn’t; the LL versions are heavier, wrinkle less and are more long-lasting.

The data I was looking for. Thanks.

 

[Bespoke DJP]

Dear Gentlemen,

Re: Drapers - VBC

Drapers was established by the Lolli family as a fabric merchant company in 1956. It was owned and run by family members until recently when VBC - a far older, bigger, producing company - acquired a majority shareholding, leaving the family with the remaining minority shareholding and Mr. Domenico Lolli at the helm as in many deals in the M&A arena.

Due to the above, it is only natural that Drapers cloth is VBC in light of the synergistic value of the transaction. Drapers was - rightfully IMHO - kept as a separate brand within the VBC group in order to contribute, or even complement the group's commercial targets based on the former's separate brand identity and prestige.

Cheers,

Dimitris

 

[classicalthunde]

so @Bespoke DJP is there a VBC book that offers the same 4-ply open weave fabric found in the Ascot book? And if so, is there as significant price difference between the two for the same fabric?

 

[Bespoke DJP]

Dear @classicalthunde,

AFAIK, VBC has decided certain lines to be channeled only via the Drapers brand capitalizing, as I wrote above, on the latter's strong brand identity in both the tailoring community and its sartorial clientele.

Unfortunately, there is a certain price difference and this is one of the routes from where the price (or even premium) of the acquisition will return to VBC. I sincerely hope that VBC will opt for real synergies and not for marketing gimmicks!

Cheers,

Dimitris

 

[classicalthunde]

Dear @classicalthunde,

AFAIK, VBC has decided certain lines to be channeled only via the Drapers brand capitalizing, as I wrote above, on the latter's strong brand identity in both the tailoring community and its sartorial clientele.

Unfortunately, there is a certain price difference and this is one of the routes from where the price (or even premium) of the acquisition will return to VBC. I sincerely hope that VBC will opt for real synergies and not for marketing gimmicks!

Cheers,

Dimitris

Gotcha, this is what i thought...that while the Drapers Ascot is in fact milled by VBC which is clearly stated on the book itself, the only merchant you can buy VBC 4-ply open weave fabric from is Drapers. Whereas it appears that you can purchase the same 3-ply Lovat milled open weave fabric both directly from the Lovat Bard bunch or through the London Lounge Brisa runs at presumably two very different price points...

 

[dieworkwear]

Thinking about getting a polo coat made. I received some swatches from my tailor, which are from Harrison's Overcoating book. I'm debating between them, but wondering if anyone has seen other overcoatings that may be good for this project. Prefer something in a slightly darker shade of tan than the traditional Brooks Brothers style polo coat -- so not too bright/ light.

 

[kolecho]

Thinking about getting a polo coat made. I received some swatches from my tailor, which are from Harrison's Overcoating book. I'm debating between them, but wondering if anyone has seen other overcoatings that may be good for this project. Prefer something in a slightly darker shade of tan than the traditional Brooks Brothers style polo coat -- so not too bright/ light.

Have a look at Minnis camel hair. Paone is making one up. Has the nicest texture compared with Harrisons and Caccioppoli.

 

[RogerC]

Perhaps a left field option, undyed wool, either from Marling and Evans or Loro Piana Pecora Nera? There are some really interesting light brown herringbones etc. out there

 

[Bespoke DJP]

Dear @dieworkwear,

If your are open to contemplate further materials than camel hair, I do agree with our fellow @RogerC that the overcoating bunch of Loro Piana's "Pecora Nera" line has some very nice options.

These two fabrics that I am posting here below have a very nice muted beige/taupe color, a great texture and hand offered by 100% merino wool at 530grams and 580-600grams respectively. There is another fabric with the same texture, yet very dark for your aims, while the fabrics of the rest of the bunch are IMHO better for balmacaan overcoats.

I am wishing you the best for this project as well.

Dimitris

 

[aristoi bcn]

Have a look at Minnis camel hair. Paone is making one up. Has the nicest texture compared with Harrisons and Caccioppoli.

This has been out of stock for some time already. Do you think it is made by Joshua Ellis as the rest of the HFW cashmeres?

 

[DavidLane]

Thinking about getting a polo coat made. I received some swatches from my tailor, which are from Harrison's Overcoating book. I'm debating between them, but wondering if anyone has seen other overcoatings that may be good for this project. Prefer something in a slightly darker shade of tan than the traditional Brooks Brothers style polo coat -- so not too bright/ light.

Standeven looks nice, but looks a bit ripply/shiny. May be worth getting a sample: https://www.standevenfabrics.co.uk/bunches/everest/