Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[CorozoButton]

I have used a linen from "Natural Elements" (probably made by Spence Bryson), "Equinox" cotton gabardine, a tweed from the "White Rose" book, and a cavalry twill also from that book (both probably made by Lovat). All very good.

I actually have a length of Natural Elements in my cart in the 'Oatmeal' shade. How have you found the drape considering it's such a lightweight linen? I assume it was for trousers?

 

[reidd]

I actually have a length of Natural Elements in my cart in the 'Oatmeal' shade. How have you found the drape considering it's such a lightweight linen? I assume it was for trousers?

I have a full suit actually and its awesome. Closest you can get to being comfortable in a suit in 90* heat. It wrinkles of course but all linen does. Drape is great. All these Irish linens wear basically the same IMO. There isn't going to be much discernable difference between a 9oz vs. 12oz in terms of wrinkle resistance.

 

[breakaway01]

Could I ask what Dugdale cloths you've made up? I've been looking at them for a couple of bits.

I've been happy with their Royal Classic (used to be 13 oz IIRC, now they have a Royal Classic Vantage book that is a little lighter at ~12 oz) and worsted flannels.

 

[CorozoButton]

I have a full suit actually and its awesome. It wrinkles of course but all linen does. All these Irish linens wear basically the same IMO. There isn't going to be much discernable difference between a 9oz vs. 12oz in terms of wrinkle resistance.

Oh, great! What shade did you go for in the suit?

 

[classicalthunde]

All,

I feel overwhelmed... I have historically been working with a tailor that has only two options: Loro Piana and Holland and Sherry. When I wanted linen @The Chai recommended Spence Bryson, and now my tailor has that. That makes life easy. I simply had him make my suit with the HS s120 fabrics. I dont even know what book it was from. From their website it could have been snowy river or Target. The fabric is 8.5 oz so I'm guessing snowy river

However, I am now working with a manufacturer (a factory) that has access to many many many mills and merchants. I suddenly feel overwhelmed. I dont know where to start for basic suiting. I'm only going to use their in house unknown cloth for the test fittings. Once I move beyond that I plan to move on to european fabrics. I could keep going with Holland and Sherry, but I could explore VBC/Drapers... but do I do arrivals or 5 star? I could try Ariston and go with their collection of super 120's. Dugdale Merchant Fleece could work. I could even try Huddersfield fine worsted... although from the looks of it they only have 130 in their Bedlam book. I havent even looks into Zegna, Loro Piana, or Scabal, or Doremeuil, yet...

I know I cant go wrong with any of these fabrics... is there any method to choosing, or should I just spin the bottle? I'm leaning towards spinning the bottle unless someone has another way to frame this decision

I agree with the other posts that it will depend on usage, climate, and preferences, etc. A couple of years ago I asked the question "if i were to walk into a big Savile Row firm and ask for a business suit, what books would they steer me to" and the most common answers I received were Drapers 5-star, Drapers Ascot, Smith Botany, Harrisons Oyster, H Lesser, Dugdale New Fine Worsted, Minnis Fresco, Harrison's Cru Classe and Premier Cru. Obviously, most of these are pretty conservative business suit fabrics, and are on the heavier end of mid-weight (11-14 oz) for an English climate.

@Despos has also noted before that the standard VBC ranges are quite good as well, he also recommended H&S Cape Horn for a blazer, which I opted for and think is very good

If I was to stereotype I think the English fabrics have a dryer hand (I've heard it referred to as a 'walnut finish') and the Italian fabrics are a bit more luxurious softer hand. I have a navy Drapers 5-star suit and love it, next on deck is a charcoal Drapers Ascot 4-ply high twist. Drapers is basically an Italian take on an English cloth, so its got both the heft and the finish. I have some Caccioppoli jacketing lengths as well, which are lighter and softer, but also have more surface interest. I love the look of Fox Bros stuff, but it is too expensive for me compared to the alternatives

I would think about the following:

Usage: business (books I mentioned above) or something more casual (linens, jacketing books, more patterns, cacciopooli seasonal releases etc.)

Climate: I like things slightly on the heavier end since I rarely wear tailoring in the summer, and it drapes nicer on me. For me the sweet spot is 10-13oz, others prefer 8-11oz, some old school people prefer up to 15/16oz (Harrisons P&B Universal).

Weave: all things being equal tighter weaves would wear warmer but be more durable, open weaves would breath better but may not be as 'bullet proof'... the high-twist open weave books (Ascot, Fresco, Finmeresco, Crispaire) seem to be the best of both worlds. I have a pair of trousers Ascot 4-ply, and you will definitely notice the open weave nature on a windy winter day

Composition: Wool is the standard for lack of a better term, mohair blend adds a bit of sheen, Cashmere blend adds a bit of softness, Wool Silk Linen mixes are popular for spring and summer jacketing, cotton ages interestingly over time but has no natural give or stretch

 

[dieworkwear]

Tell your suitmaker to make your suit using layers of Harrison Oyster, Drapers 5 star, Minnis Fresco, Fox flannel, etc. When you get the suit, peel away the layers like an onion until you get to your preferred fabric.

 

[Encathol Epistemia]

In case anybody needed some excitement, I can report that a few meters of the fawn covert cloth from the Huddersfield Fine Worsteds English Coating collection that I earlier mooted procuring are on their way to my local tailor to be made into a coat some time in the near future.

 

[reidd]

Oh, great! What shade did you go for in the suit?

Its the 04 swatch; mid fawn. Very similar to the oatmeal actually. I believe I posted some pictures either in this thread or the bespoke thread. It works really well either as a full suit, or worn as separates. I've been thinking about getting another suit in the chocolate brown to use similarly.

 

[dukeaw]

@classicalthunde

Thank you for your insight. I am in NYC. I'll lean towards 9-10oz fabric for shoulder wear as I am in nyc. Those fabrics can get me through the winter with a coat. Eventually I'll get 12-14oz or flannel suits for winter. I can wear my linen and linen blends in the summer. I will take that into consideration

@dieworkwear I hope you patent that idea. Its genius!

 

[classicalthunde]

@classicalthunde

Thank you for your insight. I am in NYC. I'll lean towards 9-10oz fabric for shoulder wear as I am in nyc. Those fabrics can get me through the winter with a coat. Eventually I'll get 12-14oz or flannel suits for winter. I can wear my linen and linen blends in the summer. I will take that into consideration

@dieworkwear I hope you patent that idea. Its genius!

If you're in NYC I would stop by one of the menswear stores that have fabric books on hand for MTM or bespoke, go through some of them and see which ones you like...

 

[dieworkwear]

If you're in NYC I would stop by one of the menswear stores that have fabric books on hand for MTM or bespoke, go through some of them and see which ones you like...

Come on. Don't stop by a store and flip through the books if you're not planning to order a suit from them

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

Come on. Don't stop by a store and flip through the books if you're not planning to order a suit from them

Or just buy some ties or something...

 

[classicalthunde]

Come on. Don't stop by a store and flip through the books if you're not planning to order a suit from them

I wouldn't set up an appointment or be dishonest about it or pester the sales associate with questions, but if you happen to frequent one of the stores that has them out and about, and you ask permission I don't think it would be out of line. But maybe that's just me...

 

[classicalthunde]

Or just buy some ties or something...

I mean the example specific I was thinking of is when I visited the Armoury to pick up a tie and a watch strap and they had a fabric book that i was interested in laying out on the table, so I asked if I could take a look through an snapped some pictures.

I talked with one of their sales associates about their MTM program, but was very up front that I wasn't going to purchase today and was just doings some research into it. I snapped some pics of fabrics that I might be interested in down the line i could jot them down in my running spread sheet. Granted I didn't necessarily do this to then turn around and get something made with another outfit but when finances, pandemic, and time allow.

 

[dieworkwear]

There's a meme on Twitter that goes: "Men will really learn about Roman history/ hide in a Trojan horse/ [insert some ridiculously difficult thing] than go to therapy"

Sometimes it feels like StyleForum guys will literally do anything except go into a good store, pick out a cool suit, and just buy it. Or find a good tailor.

They will hunt down an overseas factory, set up an industry account, learn about fabrics, then go into a tailoring shop and take photos of fabric books, go back to their factory, ask for a toile garment, try on that garment, take photos and post it on the internet, ask Despos for feedback, go back to their factory, make 1cm changes, get another trial garment, go back to Despos and ask fo-