Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[Bespoke DJP]

Gentlemen, please do read the posts before you respond!

Thank you.

Dimitris

 

[Marshak]

Is the maker of London Lounge an Italian mill?

Cheers,

Dimitris

It's written: Lovat. An Italian Mill would never weave such an insane fabric.

 

[Bespoke DJP]

It's written: Lovat. An Italian Mill would never weave such an insane fabric.

Believe me, this was a legit question!

 

[dieworkwear]

Is the maker of London Lounge an Italian mill?

Cheers,

Dimitris

Edited to add:
Is it an 100% cashmere overcoating fabric, or a cashmere-mix? Harrisons of Edinburgh above call the whole bunch of the posted fabric "Cashmere Overcoating", still, this is a 100% wool.

I believe it's pure cashmere. I didn't subscribe to the run, but that's my recollection. As someone mentioned, it's from Lovat.

I have a pure cashmere fabric here from Lovat. Also from a London Lounge run. I don't remember the weight, but I estimate it to be about 450/ 500gr. Feels more like a sport coat fabric to me, to be honest. Not sure I would use it for an overcoat.

 

[mactire]

Is the maker of London Lounge an Italian mill?

Cheers,

Dimitris

Edited to add:
Is it an 100% cashmere overcoating fabric, or a cashmere-mix? Harrisons of Edinburgh above call the whole bunch of the posted fabric "Cashmere Overcoating", still, this is a 100% wool.

The 100% cashmere london lounge is normally Joshua Ellis.

 

[classicalthunde]

I'm scared to ask how much a 36oz pure cashmere LL fabric would run...certainly would put the cost of the Fox Bros overcoating I was looking at in a better light...

 

[Marshak]

I'm scared to ask how much a 36oz pure cashmere LL fabric would run...certainly would put the cost of the Fox Bros overcoating I was looking at in a better light...

The price of the bespoke coat itself I guess. There are some options at Harrison's in the area of heavy weight coatings. You should look at it and they are quite responsive to samples requests. Fox is clearly overpriced since 2 years.

 

[aristoi bcn]

Johua Ellis is reasonably priced. I wish they had more adventurous designs in their stock supported range. Or worsted cashmere. Afaik their jacketings are only woollen cashmere at around 320g.

 

[classicalthunde]

The price of the bespoke coat itself I guess. There are some options at Harrison's in the area of heavy weight coatings. You should look at it and they are quite responsive to samples requests. Fox is clearly overpriced since 2 years.

yea, I'll definitely consider all options, I just like the char-navy color in the Fox Exmoor book since my only suits are charcoal and navy I think that would work out well...but if its the difference of a couple hundred dollars then I'll probably look for alternatives.

 

[mactire]

Johua Ellis is reasonably priced. I wish they had more adventurous designs in their stock supported range. Or worsted cashmere. Afaik their jacketings are only woollen cashmere at around 320g.

They do contract weaving sample lengths starting at about 7m (obvs with a surcharge).

 

[Marshak]

yea, I'll definitely consider all options, I just like the char-navy color in the Fox Exmoor book since my only suits are charcoal and navy I think that would work out well...but if its the difference of a couple hundred dollars then I'll probably look for alternatives.

The Exmoor bunch is really nice but the continuous increase of Fox prices questions the quality/price ratio. There is a clear trendy effect. Standeven has a small but interesting collection in the 600/800 gr range.

 

[Bespoke DJP]

Dear gentlemen,

I began this sartorial journey some time ago by perusing suiting bunches for suits to be made, the jacketing bunches for jackets (now called sport coats), and the overcoating bunches for topcoats / overcoats; the era of simplicity!

For some time now, I observe jacketing cloth to be used as a suiting cloth (with all unsurprising consequences in the trousers' future condition), and overcoating cloth not only to be used as a jacketing fabric, but also accompanied with "authority" opinions negating the cloth's purpose as designed and produced by the mill itself!

In order to avoid confusion in the younger generation here, I am just quoting the position of one of the most eminent (by profession) members here, posted in November of 2019:

That is top coat weight, 500 grams. Would like to see made up as one

Certainly, personal choices are respected and not to be challenged, yet, if a less seasoned-in-the-bespoke-arena gentleman needs an objective guidance, is this not a place that he should have a chance to find it?

Some food for thought.

Cheers,

Dimitris

 

[dieworkwear]

Dear gentlemen,

I began this sartorial journey some time ago by perusing suiting bunches for suits to be made, the jacketing bunches for jackets (now called sport coats), and the overcoating bunches for topcoats / overcoats; the era of simplicity!

For some time now, I observe jacketing cloth to be used as a suiting cloth (with all unsurprising consequences in the trousers' future condition), and overcoating cloth not only to be used as a jacketing fabric, but also accompanied with "authority" opinions negating the cloth's purpose as designed and produced by the mill itself!

In order to avoid confusion in the younger generation here, I am just quoting the position of one of the most eminent (by profession) members here, posted in November of 2019:



Certainly, personal choices are respected and not to be challenged, yet, if a less seasoned-in-the-bespoke-arena gentleman needs an objective guidance, is this not a place that he should have a chance to find it?

Some food for thought.

Cheers,

Dimitris

A 500g cashmere doesn't feel the same as a 500g Shetland tweed, though. I have the 500g London Lounge jacketing here. It feels much thinner and more delicate than my tweeds in the same weight.

I mentioned earlier that I've heard tailors refer to topcoats as coats made from a cloth that's at least 18 oz and overcoats as coats made from fabrics at least 22oz. I think that's in keeping with what you cited above. But I think more important is just how the cloth feels.

I don't have that much experience with pure cashmere jacketings or coatings. But at least the double-faced cloth that LL sold a few years ago, I can only imagine that as a sport coat. If someone comes across another 500g cashmere fabric that's somehow thicker, maybe that would be different, I don't know.

 

[aristoi bcn]

Also depends on the region. 500g cashmere might be coating weight in Naples in 2020 but jacketing weight in Milan in 1950.

 

[Bespoke DJP]

I agree with both of you.

The feeling of the fabric at a substantial weight is very important. If the above-mentioned LL pure cashmere double-faced jacketing fabric is the one that came in brown / grey herringbone and we all admired in our fellow's @Alan Bee astonishing unfunded liabilities pile, indeed, IMO this is destined as a sport coat! I have no information about the weight of this smart and very nice fabric, but I' d very much like to see it as a finished garment.

As an example and only, I was able last year to acquire an overcoating fabric, still unfunded. It is an Ermenegildo Zegna 100% cashmere at 480grams with the characteristic luxurious nap of overcoating fabrics of this quality; this can never become something different that it is destined to be. In contrast, in this year's EZ seasonal collection (Anteprima FW '20-21), one may find a wool-mix overcoating fabric at exactly the same weight (480grams) with no nap at all, dry hand, which gives the impression of a somehow heavier cloth of the ones in the jacketing section; this, under certain circumstances can be contemplated as a sport coat!

Finally, my dear @aristoi bcn, one's prevailing climatological conditions and tolerance to cold will be pivotal to the selection of jacketing and overcoating fabrics for sure! As far as the evolution of the weight of the fabrics is concerned, it is almost unbelievable how lighter the fabrics have became through the years in all cross-sections, due to the urban way of working and living (A/C environments, etc), refined tastes, and climate change, just to name few reasons.

Best,

Dimitris