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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. fassbinder

    fassbinder Senior member

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    perhaps he hasn't noticed how bad your coats fit around the neck?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. forex

    forex Senior member

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    The only thing I like about this jacket is the buttonhole, other than that, there is nothing special about it. Neither pattern nor fit but it's your money and clothing so feel free to do whatever you want. If you think all people on this board have no idea what they are talking about, perhaps you are in the wrong place to begin with?!
     
    4 people like this.
  3. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    Thanks for insulting me. You do realize how ironic it is to join a debate calling people 'fools' whilst purposefully ignoring all rationale points made?

    This isn't how educated men converse, so you have perhaps achieved your goal, I am no longer posting in this discussion.
     
  4. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    @Forex where did I say everyone on this site have no idea what they talk? This is a straw man, please don't do that.

    @fassbinder how so?
     
  5. Loathing

    Loathing Senior member

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    Spare us your sophomoric logic and spend some time reading around instead.
     
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  6. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    Lol I give up, this is painful. You do realize due to your inability to construct a proper argument, or converse intelligently - I have no idea what exactly you disagree with me on, or what you actually want me to read. Good day.
     
  7. Loathing

    Loathing Senior member

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    You've conflated inability and disinclination. Isn't failing to make a distinction between the two one of your little logical fallacies? And also, isn't your insistence on placing the burden of evidence on me another logical fallacy?

    Look at me! I can do Logic! :teach:
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  8. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    I'm not placing the burden of evidence on you to prove whether I'm right or wrong, I'm just asking you to add something to the discussion..

    It's actually quite insulting you can't be bothered to engage in the conversation in any meaningful way. With my post and arguments, I've put the effort to actually to take time out of my day to take pictures and explain my position.

    It's great to know you can't be arsed showing me the same level of courtesy.
     
  9. Loathing

    Loathing Senior member

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    In all seriousness though, here's why those patterns look bad as odd jackets:

    1. They look like they could be orphaned suit jackets. This is one of the most egregious mistakes in all of men's clothing.
    2. Odd jackets are casual by definition. They should look casual, they should be hard-wearing, they should be heavier in weight, coarser, more rustic, and bolder in pattern than suiting. The special exception is the navy blazer.
    3. Grey flannel trousers are the quintessential trouser to wear with an odd jacket. Therefore all of your odd jackets should contrast greatly with grey flannel.
    4. Finally, these cloths have a history, and small-scale glen plaids have historically been used for suits and not for odd jackets. This is one of the main reasons why point (1) is so important.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  10. Loathing

    Loathing Senior member

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    It's funny that you see it this way. From my end, it looks like you can't be bothered to read around a little before engaging in a vociferous argument on an elementary point of good taste.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  11. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    That sport coat really does look like suiting, but if it makes you happy to wear it that way, then you have found happiness. I don't much care for the styling, particularly the lapel shape and over-high notch but there are other elements of the cut that I do like. The tailoring itself looks very good (no-collar).
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  12. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    Ok great :)

    1) It would really depend on what you wear as suits, I don't see many loud POW suits in the city. And by definition we arguing about the loudness and size of pattern, on an already loud, large pattern. Perhaps my cut off on what I personally like is different from yours, who will be different than the next person? It's a lot down to personal taste, once you know what you're doing it's fine

    2) Why should they be more rustic and coarser? And why is navy the exception? What should I do with all my 100% cashmere jackets? Or my vicuna ones? I assure you these are not coarse, and they are relatively lighter

    3) This makes sense, don't pair your grey trousers with your similar but different jackets. What about the times I don't wear grey flannels, and wear jeans, different coloured trousers and chinos?

    The point I'm making, perhaps contrary to what others are arguing, is that style can be more personal then the absolutes some people are pushing.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    If your personal style is to wear suitings as sport coats, run with it. You have a nice headstart.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
    3 people like this.
  14. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    Of course, and this is my point. I can assure you this cloth isn't intended to be used for trousers, it's double faced - too heavy (I've never seen a double faced cloth like this used in trousers before).
     
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  15. tcbrgs

    tcbrgs Senior member

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    Be sure to give me credit of the style in 40 years :)
     
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  16. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    People are so weird...
     
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  17. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You are right, a double faced cloth is not intended for use as a suit - it is either sport coat or overcoat. And while I think the pattern is a bad choice for a sport coat, the manufacturer had people like you, and there are many, in mind. Manufacturers make stuff because they think people will buy them - tastes differ. In fact, trends are on your side and there is a kind of timidity creeping into sport coats. So you have that in your favor.

    At this point, people have made their positions clear. I won't argue with you. But I will note that if you spend some time looking at examples of well-dressed men during the heyday of tailored clothes, you will see the clear distinction between suitings and coatings. It is not accidental. Whether you care or not is your business.

    :) As I noted above, the trend is on your side. Eventually, that will function as black-tie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
    4 people like this.
  18. forex

    forex Senior member

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    You are most likely missing the main concept here, just because it is to your liking and your personal style doesn't make it look good. I think that a lot of people have commented that the fabrics you have chosen do not look good as sport coats. Does it mean you should not wear them? Of course not, as I said, it is your money and clothing so you can wear whatever you want. What people are arguing here is that those fabrics are usually reserved as suitings and you should use bolder patterns and fabrics that are woven as sport coatings. Again, this doesn't mean that someone can't wear his suit coat as an add coat, it just doesn't look good.
    Also, on point #3 above, you can certainly wear sport coats with odd pants other than flannel but the point was that if your sport coat doesn't look good with gray flannel pants (the most neutral color), chances are your choice of fabric wasn't right/great.
     
  19. fassbinder

    fassbinder Senior member

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    in both photos you posted of jackets you are wearing, your collar looks loose and it appears to be gaping on at least one of the sides. it would probably appear worse if your shirts were buttoned and without a sweater. i would talk to your tailor about it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. aportnoy

    aportnoy Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Am I misremembering or didn't people go ga-ga over a similar cloth from London Lounge that was used for odd jackets? Be kind if I am wrong, I just turned 50 and might be suffering the attending symptoms of my advanced years.
     
    1 person likes this.

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