Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[dieworkwear]

So winter has hit hard where I am at. It's a bit too cold even for 18 oz. P&B Universal trousers. P&B has some 20oz. that I might have made up. I was also looking at some 18oz to 20oz fabrics in HFW Alsport and P&H Calvary Twills.

What does everyone like for cold weather trousers?

Merino wool long underwear + whatever trousers you like.

+1 on Bromely's comment. I used to live in Moscow, Russia and got through some pretty cold winters using baselayers.

My most basic baselayers are from Smartwool. They weigh about 250g/m and are very comfortable. I find they're good between temps 45 and 60. Below 45, I need something thicker and warmer, so I wear the heaviest baselayers offered at WoolX. Those are 400g/m. They're warmer, but they're also thicker and slightly itchier. You don't really notice 250g Smartwool baselayers, but you notice the 400g Woolx. If you find yourself in heated offices, they may also start to feel too warm, so it's a balancing act.

I wore those baselayers under normal wool trousers. Most of those trousers were your usual midweight 12oz to 14oz wool fabrics, often flannel.

The other thing to note is the fiber composition. Baselayers come in pure merino wool and merino-blends (often mixed with a synthetic such as polyester). From what I understand, the wool-polys are actually more durable, which is why they're favored by people who are wearing these for very active things such as hiking. But the pure wool ones don't hold odor as easily. Depending on your day, I find you can wear the pure merino ones a couple of times before needing to wash them.

 

[Simon A]

So winter has hit hard where I am at. It's a bit too cold even for 18 oz. P&B Universal trousers. P&B has some 20oz. that I might have made up. I was also looking at some 18oz to 20oz fabrics in HFW Alsport and P&H Calvary Twills.

What does everyone like for cold weather trousers?

Woolen-spun cloth is the go. 500 g woolen flannels are great. Also some Lovat cheviot tweeds in the 500-600 g range in windowpanes or herringbones (LL cheviots or Kirkton). Match with some wooly over-the-calf socks and you're in business.

 

[Marshak]

So winter has hit hard where I am at. It's a bit too cold even for 18 oz. P&B Universal trousers. P&B has some 20oz. that I might have made up. I was also looking at some 18oz to 20oz fabrics in HFW Alsport and P&H Calvary Twills.

What does everyone like for cold weather trousers?

Heavy flannel! Cavalry twill has no warmness despite high weight.

 

[Jmr928]

Does anyone know how to purchase that Loro Piana wool / silk seersucker? My tailor can't access, unfortunately...

Bumping this unanswered question in case anyone has ideas. Same question, same problem.. US based, tailor based in Naples.

 

[corpseposeur]

Woolen-spun cloth is the go. 500 g woolen flannels are great. Also some Lovat cheviot tweeds in the 500-600 g range in windowpanes or herringbones (LL cheviots or Kirkton). Match with some wooly over-the-calf socks and you're in business.

Thanks. I never thought to consider Lovat for trousers, but I think they'd work well. I'll ask my tailor about these. I'd probably have them fully lined as well.

 

[Concordia]

Get the ones with the harder finish. Don't shrink from heavy weight-- I have a London Lounge 3-pc in about 22oz that is quite nice when churches feel like meat lockers.

 

[JHWilliams]

I was hoping to purchase some of this cloth, but it states that it isn’t suitable for trousers “due to weight and heavily milled finish”

That doesn’t make much sense to me.
any idea as to why?

 

[ladislav.jancik]

I was hoping to purchase some of this cloth, but it states that it isn’t suitable for trousers “due to weight and heavily milled finish”

That doesn’t make much sense to me.
any idea as to why?

Don't know why it doesn't make sense to you (just kidding).
My understanding is that the finish of the cloth is so heavily milled that it won't wear well as trousers. The weight may not be problem but the intensity of the weave/finish of the cloth yes. Therefore this cloth is intended only for jacketing.

 

[bdavro23]

Bumping this unanswered question in case anyone has ideas. Same question, same problem.. US based, tailor based in Naples.

I find it very unusual that your Naples based tailor is unable to open an account with Loro Piana. If they'll give me an account here in the states, I cant imagine why your guy cant get one. Trying to source it yourself in the US will be much more expensive than if your guy can get it from LP.

 

[JHWilliams]

Don't know why it doesn't make sense to you (just kidding).
My understanding is that the finish of the cloth is so heavily milled that it won't wear well as trousers. The weight may not be problem but the intensity of the weave/finish of the cloth yes. Therefore this cloth is intended only for jacketing.

I find my Minnis flannels to be heavily milled and they drape beautifully. What would the difference be with this cloth

 

[ladislav.jancik]

I find my Minnis flannels to be heavily milled and they drape beautifully. What would the difference be with this cloth

Hard to say, I have any experience neither with Minnis flannel nor with this Fox cloth. What I know is that jacketing cloth in this weight and milled finish drapes beautifully, but it usually doesn't hold its shape very well when it is used for trousers. You will get baggy knees faster for example, trousers will require pressing more often and quite possibly they will wear out faster in friction areas. I like the cloth and I wanted to buy it for the pair of trousers in the past as well, but I changed my mind after reading the description. I believe Fox Brothers knows their stuff so I follow their suggestions when I cannot examine the cloth personally.

 

[Concordia]

Fox puts that note on some of their heavy flannels, but not all. I have a suit from the 18oz flannels they made for LL/Alden, and it holds up beautifully.

You can ask them directly, but I'm guessing that density and firmness of finish have to do with it as much as weight and quality of fibers.

 

[Markus W]

Thanks, classicalthunde and Markus.

Markus, do you find that the high amount of silk renders your jacket not as breathable? Breathability is a big concern for me. Thanks.

The breathability is pretty good. If you hold the jacket against the sunlight it is quite a see through fabric. The weave is not as open as an Fresco but still breathable. You can not compare it to a dense woven silk usually used for a pocket square.

Like I said before, I would order a silk jacket right away.

 

[Markus W]

Does anyone know how to purchase that Loro Piana wool / silk seersucker? My tailor can't access, unfortunately...

Bumping this unanswered question in case anyone has ideas. Same question, same problem.. US based, tailor based in Naples.

Send me a message. Maybe I can help you out.

 

[bjhofkin]

This might not be the best thread for this question, but what is it called when the cloth facings sort of extend to become the lining itself, as in these photos?

And what are the pros cons of that method – specifically regarding overcoats? Could it be a way to make a heavier/warmer coat out of an otherwise lighter cloth?