Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[物の哀れ]

@TheFoo made a great argument for bespoke outerwear.

 

[dieworkwear]

@TheFoo made a great argument for bespoke outerwear.

View attachment 1739548

That vent tho ?

 

[corpseposeur]

@TheFoo made a great argument for bespoke outerwear.

View attachment 1739548

This coat could use some tweaks.The front wrap looks imbalanced as it's angling to the left and that vent is opening quite a bit.

 

[ericgereghty]

In fairness, he’s also like 5’2, right? My frame sucks for RTW, and that strikes me as another level of difficult to make work.

 

[Despos]

This was before his 11th commission so be a little forgiving. The balance is effecting both the front and the back.
Short front causes the front edge to swing over at the bottom. This is called scissoring. If you are an English fitter you could cut a crooked shoulder to straighten the front but that makes the chest smaller and it’s already skimpy.
The back is automatically long in relation to the front balance and contributes to the vent opening. If you lift the back up, the vent straightens. The tension of the belt drawn in to create and hold the pleat makes the vent splay open. If you release the belt and the pleats, the vent will close a bit. Not enough to offset the effect of the balance.
Maybe a fuller skirt would help the vent close but it wouldn’t look as good with a full skirt. Would create an A line effect. The narrow chest is making the coat look broader across the hips from the front view. Compare the front and back silhouettes. Front has a narrow chest/wide hip. The back has a fuller upper back because of the pleating and the coat looks broader at the upper level and more balanced with the lower skirt. That could have been done on the front chest. Mens coats always look better when they broaden the chest and shoulder and minimize the hips. Sleeves would look better if they were a little fuller. They look trim compared to the body.
If you’ve read this far you have insight to what is going on in your tailors head while he’s doing a fitting. A fitting is an analysis of line, proportion and balance.

 

[dieworkwear]

I think I'm hesitant about bespoke overcoats because there have been numerous examples posted on this forum that don't look very good. Such coats were made by reputable bespoke tailors that are well regarded on this forum. Vents flared, lapels strangely cut, or an unflattering silhouette. Or just a poor choice of fabrics. I would be very disappointed if I paid $5k for a bespoke overcoat and it turned out less well than altered RTW.

 

[Despos]

I think I'm hesitant about bespoke overcoats because there have been numerous examples posted on this forum that don't look very good. Such coats were made by reputable bespoke tailors that are well regarded on this forum. Vents flared, lapels strangely cut, or an unflattering silhouette. Or just a poor choice of fabrics. I would be very disappointed if I paid $5k for a bespoke overcoat and it turned out less well than altered RTW.

@dieworkwear
Maybe you haven’t found a tailor who understands your aesthetic values. Or one you fully trust.

 

[dieworkwear]

@dieworkwear
Maybe you haven’t found a tailor who understands your aesthetic values. Or one you fully trust.

I like the suits, sport coats, shirts, and pants I get from my tailors, but I've seen them also produce overcoats that I don't think look very good.

 

[bernoulli]

Like you, I am happy with RTW. This commission came about because somebody gave me the fabric for this. Bespoke does not need to be U$5K, as this cost me U$400. But I also wanted something simple. I agree that overcomplicated coats would be a pain and likely to be more miss than hit as bespoke.

I like the suits, sport coats, shirts, and pants I get from my tailors, but I've seen them also produce overcoats that I don't think look very good.

 

[Sreezy36]

@Despos what are the characteristics of your ideal type of fabric to work with when making a topcoat (lighter weight overcoat)? More specifically:

what is your preferred fabric weight range? Do you prefer cloth 16/17 oz range or heavier cloth?

also, what wool compositions do you tend to prefer? Lambswool, cashmere, Escorial, vicuña, wool/cash blends, or other wool blends.

 

[lordsuperb]

I also was thinking about doing a peacoat in the Everest, to cut down on the cut of the fabric needed & the weight is that of a traditional peacoat. However, I have a RTW peacoat I bought several years ago that I am quite happy with (aside from the covid induced weight gain). But, I think its a good option & bespoke tailors should be able to produce it quite nicely. The weight of the fabric would be perfect for a peacoat - a luxury one at that!

Save your money.

 

[corpseposeur]

I think I'm hesitant about bespoke overcoats because there have been numerous examples posted on this forum that don't look very good. Such coats were made by reputable bespoke tailors that are well regarded on this forum. Vents flared, lapels strangely cut, or an unflattering silhouette. Or just a poor choice of fabrics. I would be very disappointed if I paid $5k for a bespoke overcoat and it turned out less well than altered RTW.

I think you're right about this and it's changed my mind about getting a bespoke coat.

I had been tossing around the idea of a bespoke peacoat. While I'm sure the tailors I would commission would do a good job of it, I have at least 6 excellent coats in my wardrobe that are all of fantastic quality--for my purposes anyway. Many of them are vintage pieces I found on eBay for around $200-$400. They fit well for the most part or need minimal alterations like shortening the sleeves but the vents stay closed and the balance looks alright.

 

[Despos]

can’t grasp the premise of this conversation of RTW vs custom outerwear. Seems like it’s asking for a consensus that one method is more correct than the other. If you find a topcoat, peacoat, whatever, that fits you welL, buy it.
If it doesn’t fit well, not the cloth you like, doesn’t have the style/details you want, have it made.
one thing unique to outerwear is how full or how draped they fit. This should harmonize with the styling and align with your personal preferences. Don’t do a loose formal coat or a trim casual coat. Generalization, not a rule.
My experience is fitting a top coat drafted from your jacket pattern creates a mirrored fit. All my topcoats feel like bath robes over a jacket.
But then everyone will have their own experience because it’s all about the individual. I know someone who doesn’t like pizza.

 

[lordsuperb]

I know someone who doesn’t like pizza.

I guess they haven't frequented Naples yet.

 

[Despos]

I guess they haven't frequented Naples yet.

They would like Neapolitan pizza even less