Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[jtwo]

I think I'm the minority on this forum where I think ready-to-wear is often better than bespoke except for a very small slice of garments (suits, sport coats, shirts, and trousers) and even then, only for certain people and circumstances (you love the craft, can't fit into RTW, etc). For a peacoat, I would just go RTW.

A member here once commissioned a bespoke peacoat and while the garment turned out nicely, it looked the same as RTW to me.

Leonard Logsdail recently posted a photo of a topcoat he's making. The shaping you see through the chest is the sort of thing that I think would be hard to find off-the-rack, and reason to buy bespoke. But you don't get this sort of shaping in many types of garments because it's just not right for the style.

RTW was actually my first thought until my ideal choice (Navy Private White for Todd Snyder) sold out as I was hesitating on pulling the trigger. I unfortunately haven't been able to find a peacoat with similar proportions, details, and lapel in RTW offerings recently.

If bespoke, I am considering going to B&Tailor to have this peacoat made up if I do end up going through with this. However, something about their peacoat lapels just seems a bit ... off?

 

[dieworkwear]

RTW was actually my first thought until my ideal choice (Navy Private White for Todd Snyder) sold out as I was hesitating on pulling the trigger. I unfortunately haven't been able to find a peacoat with similar proportions, details, and lapel in RTW offerings recently.

If bespoke, I am considering going to B&Tailor to have this peacoat made up if I do end up going through with this. However, something about their peacoat lapels just seems a bit ... off?

I like the first one better than the second one. But for an outfit, I would be worried that such a sartorial garment makes you look like one of those models in Japanese menswear magazines. Sometimes those outfits look a little too precious to me, especially when it's supposed to convey a casual spirit.

 

[bjhofkin]

I like the first one better than the second one. But for an outfit, I would be worried that such a sartorial garment makes you look like one of those models in Japanese menswear magazines. Sometimes those outfits look a little too precious to me, especially when it's supposed to convey a casual spirit.

I'm sort of with Derek here Re option #1 – I kind of think you miss the point of a peacoat when you start to get fussy with the design/styling.

And I say that fully realizing I'm the guy talking about a bespoke Balmacaan…? (The difference is I just want to pick the cloth and streamline/shorten the cut a little – not add a whole bunch of design elements – although Derek would say I'm missing the point by going away from a fuller cut.)

As for option #2, to me it looks a little like someone took an Ulster and cut off the skirt. I don't mind it – but I'd probably like it more if it were longer.


EDIT: As for @jtwo's question about a heavy cashmere like the Everest for a peacoat…those photos have me convinced it could be great.

 

[bjhofkin]

I've actually been looking through B&Tailor's IG myself b/c I think he does some interesting things with Raglan sleeves, and I just saw this – which is similar to option #2 above except with a shawl collar:



And I have to say…I dig it.

I think the shawl collar separates it enough in design from a longer DB overcoat (and also from a traditional peacoat) such that it doesn't just look like a cut-off Ulster.

 

[dieworkwear]

BRIO recently posted some photos of a handmade Caban coat on their IG. I believe these are handmade but to RTW sizes (I may be wrong, and I assume they can do a MTM or MTO version). However, they're based in Beijing and I don't think they travel. I think the coat looks good and it's peacoat-ish. But I also think that George has a particularly good eye.

 

[bdavro23]

I think I'm the minority on this forum where I think ready-to-wear is often better than bespoke except for a very small slice of garments (suits, sport coats, shirts, and trousers) and even then, only for certain people and circumstances (you love the craft, can't fit into RTW, etc). For a peacoat, I would just go RTW.

A member here once commissioned a bespoke peacoat and while the garment turned out nicely, it looked the same as RTW to me.

Leonard Logsdail recently posted a photo of a topcoat he's making. The shaping you see through the chest is the sort of thing that I think would be hard to find off-the-rack, and reason to buy bespoke. But you don't get this sort of shaping in many types of garments because it's just not right for the style.

I assume they'll fix it when they finish the coat, but the fronts arent even here and the pattern doesnt match. Seems odd that it would be off at this stage of the making since fixing it will take some doing, but maybe I'm missing something here. Perhaps @Despos can help me figure out where I'm going wrong...

 

[jonathanS]

RTW was actually my first thought until my ideal choice (Navy Private White for Todd Snyder) sold out as I was hesitating on pulling the trigger. I unfortunately haven't been able to find a peacoat with similar proportions, details, and lapel in RTW offerings recently.

If bespoke, I am considering going to B&Tailor to have this peacoat made up if I do end up going through with this. However, something about their peacoat lapels just seems a bit ... off?

I also was thinking about doing a peacoat in the Everest, to cut down on the cut of the fabric needed & the weight is that of a traditional peacoat. However, I have a RTW peacoat I bought several years ago that I am quite happy with (aside from the covid induced weight gain). But, I think its a good option & bespoke tailors should be able to produce it quite nicely. The weight of the fabric would be perfect for a peacoat - a luxury one at that!

 

[dieworkwear]

I’m in this camp. I don’t know if I can justify 4500 on fabric alone. That’s tough. Really tough, actually.

^ me on the first day of styleforum

I also was thinking about doing a peacoat in the Everest

^ me on the second day of styleforum

 

[JHWilliams]

^ me on the first day of styleforum



^ me on the second day of styleforum

LOL ?

 

[Despos]

I assume they'll fix it when they finish the coat, but the fronts arent even here and the pattern doesnt match. Seems odd that it would be off at this stage of the making since fixing it will take some doing, but maybe I'm missing something here. Perhaps @Despos can help me figure out where I'm going wrong...

@bdavro23
Not sure what you see that prompted your post. Nothing matters at this point as this is a first fitting. Pockets are finished and the only thing that won't be changed. Next step: coat is ripped down and shaped before actual construction starts. Even the center back seam is basted and not sewn.
Conventional sewing would draw in fullness on the top sleeve along the vertical seam you see in the picture of the front.The plaid would be off and not match as it does now.
Really like that Len didn't use an upper pipe on the flap pockets. This creates a continuous line of the pattern on the coat front into the flaps. No interruption of pattern. No front dart helps too.
The sleeve will be cut to match the body. He has some wiggle room now.

What I do differently is I like to have a full length of the pattern at the hem. Can only see about 2" of the open pattern at the hem at present. Doing this made it much easier to make the breast pocket. A trade off, I guess. Would make the lapels an inch wider to balance with the scale of the pattern in the cloth. Then a couple nitpick things that are personal preference and don't matter.

 

[Despos]

My opinion and my experience with outerwear is Custom is way better. Especially if the same tailor making your suits/jackets makes the topcoat. I draft topcoat patterns from the jacket pattern, adjusting the depth/size of the armhole to harmonize with the jacket armhole. Adjust the shoulder slope to fit over the jacket shoulder. The topcoat will have a slight difference of slope as its fitted to the jacket being worn. Benefit is maximum movement and little or no restriction.
Have a couple RTW outerwear coats and they don't feel as good as the ones I make or have the same freedom of movement. Many discussions here about high armholes on jackets but it's more of an issue when fitting topcoats over a jacket. RTW topcoat with a deep armhole doesn't work. The ones I wear fight me and I wear them less if I wear them at all.
About twenty years ago I used a MTM company to do a topcoat for a client. Armhole was so deep he couldn't move and ended up making a new one. Mistakes teach you the difference.

 

[bdavro23]

@bdavro23
Not sure what you see that prompted your post. Nothing matters at this point as this is a first fitting. Pockets are finished and the only thing that won't be changed. Next step: coat is ripped down and shaped before actual construction starts. Even the center back seam is basted and not sewn.
Conventional sewing would draw in fullness on the top sleeve along the vertical seam you see in the picture of the front.The plaid would be off and not match as it does now.
Really like that Len didn't use an upper pipe on the flap pockets. This creates a continuous line of the pattern on the coat front into the flaps. No interruption of pattern. No front dart helps too.
The sleeve will be cut to match the body. He has some wiggle room now.

What I do differently is I like to have a full length of the pattern at the hem. Can only see about 2" of the open pattern at the hem at present. Doing this made it much easier to make the breast pocket. A trade off, I guess. Would make the lapels an inch wider to balance with the scale of the pattern in the cloth. Then a couple nitpick things that are personal preference and don't matter.

Your explanation makes sense, thanks for sharing. It looks the left front is higher than the right front by about 3/4 of an inch, but as you describe it doesnt seem to matter at this stage.

 

[jonathanS]

^ me on the first day of styleforum



^ me on the second day of styleforum

So where are you now? Lol. I’m still thinking about it. Still painful cost wise. Haha

 

[jonathanS]

My opinion and my experience with outerwear is Custom is way better. Especially if the same tailor making your suits/jackets makes the topcoat. I draft topcoat patterns from the jacket pattern, adjusting the depth/size of the armhole to harmonize with the jacket armhole. Adjust the shoulder slope to fit over the jacket shoulder. The topcoat will have a slight difference of slope as its fitted to the jacket being worn. Benefit is maximum movement and little or no restriction.
Have a couple RTW outerwear coats and they don't feel as good as the ones I make or have the same freedom of movement. Many discussions here about high armholes on jackets but it's more of an issue when fitting topcoats over a jacket. RTW topcoat with a deep armhole doesn't work. The ones I wear fight me and I wear them less if I wear them at all.
About twenty years ago I used a MTM company to do a topcoat for a client. Armhole was so deep he couldn't move and ended up making a new one. Mistakes teach you the difference.

sounds like a great argument for why one should have all their bespoke garments made by the same tailor.

question, what about a peacoat as mentioned above - would you do that bespoke? Or is that not as important? My thinking would be you’d wear the peacoat over a sweater vs a sports jacket.

 

[Despos]

sounds like a great argument for why one should have all their bespoke garments made by the same tailor.

question, what about a peacoat as mentioned above - would you do that bespoke? Or is that not as important? My thinking would be you’d wear the peacoat over a sweater vs a sports jacket.

depends how the RTW peacoat fits and if you are happy with it. If you find one that fits and looks right to you, it would be less risky to buy it than making one and be unhappy with the result