Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[paborden]

Thanks very much – extremely helpful.

To be clear, I was thinking about comparing the Everest to something from, say, Joshua Ellis or Johnstons (or even H&S) – not Uniqlo ?. Given that, any other thoughts?

And yes, photos would absolutely be helpful!

If you do the William Lockie / Uniqlo test that'll give you a good idea of the spectrum ... and you'll see that JE is closer to the Uniqlo side of things than you'd probably want. H&S is still better than JE in my experience.

I'm very opinionated and haven't found a modern cashmere I like except the Everest. And that said I'm not a heavy cloth only, vintage cloth nut. I hate heavyweight vintage flannel for example and a lot of modern cloth IS better (Loro Piana silk seersucker comes to mind as does Fox Air). These days, though, if I wasn't doing the Everest, I'd be doing this - https://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/collections/coating/products/fox-large-herringbone-in-midnight. That's just me though!

 

[bjhofkin]

If you do the William Lockie / Uniqlo test that'll give you a good idea of the spectrum ... and you'll see that JE is closer to the Uniqlo side of things than you'd probably want. H&S is still better than JE in my experience.

I'm very opinionated and haven't found a modern cashmere I like except the Everest. And that said I'm not a heavy cloth only, vintage cloth nut. I hate heavyweight vintage flannel for example and a lot of modern cloth IS better (Loro Piana silk seersucker comes to mind as does Fox Air). These days, though, if I wasn't doing the Everest, I'd be doing this - https://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/collections/coating/products/fox-large-herringbone-in-midnight. That's just me though!

Got it – very helpful, if not so pleasant to hear wrt the mills.

I guess I'd been naive in failing to assume that the same sort of thing has happened with cloth production as with so many other things.

 

[paborden]

I have to really hunt to find things I like these days. Vintage stuff is becoming very difficult to find, too, at least in the colors and patterns that were the most useful / likely to sell out. This type of thing has been covered before but here are some of my favorite places / mills / merchants / things:

• Il Vecchio Drappiere in Milan can be great, my issue is most of their bolts are 2m, 2.2m at most
• There are still good things to be found on the Isle of Harris, though you have to be cautious as a lot of the old stuff is far too spongey / loosely woven. URGHA LOOM SHED does nice patterns occasionally. Harris in general is worth a trip just because.
• Molloy and Sons
• Lovat Mill, Knockando has some nice things
• London Lounge of course
• Anglo Italian cloth is very good, especially the summer range
• Always stop through Cacciopolli when in Naples though not always to my taste
• Loro Piana Silk Seersucker is super innovative (only thing I'll order from LP), Fox Air is great (big fan of Fox in general as most people are)
• Dugdale still has a lot of good things in their range, they're pretty much my go to for many basics
• There are gems in the Drapers, Minnis, VBC, H&S, P&H, WBill and Abraham Moon range but you have to be picky

Now if only I can find some vintage linen and camelhair and silk velvet...

 

[FlowableFill]

Why don't you like Loro Piana?

 

[Concordia]

If your tailor has already measured you, they should know how much cloth they need for an overcoat. Would ask them, and then ask other tailors who have worked with the Everest cloth if they experienced a lot of shrinkage with that fabric. I believe 2.5m of the Lovat double-faced cashmere shrank down to 2m after being hit with steam.

A huge point, not to be forgotten.

I don't know about the Everest, but the lighter LL one (20oz?) shrunk like an SOB when my tailor made a jacket from it. Luckily, I was in the process of losing some weight, but he still wound up having to do a serious alteration to get the seat to hang correctly with no gaps.

 

[Concordia]

I have to really hunt to find things I like these days. Vintage stuff is becoming very difficult to find, too, at least in the colors and patterns that were the most useful / likely to sell out. This type of thing has been covered before but here are some of my favorite places / mills / merchants / things:

• Il Vecchio Drappiere in Milan can be great, my issue is most of their bolts are 2m, 2.2m at most
• There are still good things to be found on the Isle of Harris, though you have to be cautious as a lot of the old stuff is far too spongey / loosely woven. URGHA LOOM SHED does nice patterns occasionally. Harris in general is worth a trip just because.
• Molloy and Sons
• Lovat Mill, Knockando has some nice things
• London Lounge of course
• Anglo Italian cloth is very good, especially the summer range
• Always stop through Cacciopolli when in Naples though not always to my taste
• Loro Piana Silk Seersucker is super innovative (only thing I'll order from LP), Fox Air is great (big fan of Fox in general as most people are)
• Dugdale still has a lot of good things in their range, they're pretty much my go to for many basics
• There are gems in the Drapers, Minnis, VBC, H&S, P&H, WBill and Abraham Moon range but you have to be picky

Now if only I can find some vintage linen and camelhair and silk velvet...

The Harrisons/Smiths/W Bill basement on Sackville Street used to be a treasure trove of forgotten bin ends. Probably with all the mergers, that stuff has been rationalized and shipped out, but it is worth asking your tailor if he can get you in side for a look

 

[ericgereghty]

Piggybacking (somewhat) off the above, has anybody tried making up Anglo Italian's summer weight stuff (namely the silk/linen blends) as trousers? Presumably a bit of a buyer beware situation since they're listed as jacketing, but some of those designs are super steezy.

 

[brax]

Some observations:

• I was not told anything about shrinkage and 4m was enough to go mid calf and I'm 6'4".

Maybe you don‘t suffer from the same issues as Dieworkwear?

 

[brax]

I have an overcoat in the double faced navy / camel Everest run. Bought the cloth secondhand and think I paid $2k or thereabouts for a 4m length a few years ago, finally had it made up.

Some observations:

• I was not told anything about shrinkage and 4m was enough to go mid calf and I'm 6'4".
• The cloth itself is, at the current price, similar to a lot of cashmere, and even within spitting distance of some wool pricing (I'm looking at you Holland and Sherry). The everest is exponentially better and not exponentially more expensive.
• The cloth is so good that I'm thinking about buying a second length. I would normally never consider this.
• It is not as warm as I expected it to be, frankly, but I run cold. I've found it very wearable.
• The thickness of the cloth means it has kind of a duffle coat look to it.
• The density of the cloth means that hand stitching some of the seams is difficult, I literally watched a needle buckle when my tailor tried to do this in front of me.
• I was worried about the weight of the coat. A little heavy but travel with it has been fine.
• The cashmere, like all cashmere, tends to pill, get a little fuzzy, that kind of thing so be prepared for that.
• I was super skeptical when buying this since I tend to be very practical and pedestrian in my taste (ie prefer Alden to Edward Green), usually could care less about cashmere, but I love this cloth so much.

Happy to answer any questions.

Would love to see what you did with the double face. I have an unfunded liability of that cashmere.

 

[jonathanS]

• The density of the cloth means that hand stitching some of the seams is difficult, I literally watched a needle buckle when my tailor tried to do this in front of me.

did you talk to your tailor about getting better needles?

 

[ZRH1]

The Harrisons/Smiths/W Bill basement on Sackville Street used to be a treasure trove of forgotten bin ends. Probably with all the mergers, that stuff has been rationalized and shipped out, but it is worth asking your tailor if he can get you in side for a look

I was there about 3/4 years ago and whilst it looked like they had vintage stuff only, they very friendly guy at the counter said it was all stock supported Harrisons cloth and that they specifically focused on supplying the film industry. Was I taken for a ride?

 

[Noirkw]

Big shout out to @paborden for this beautiful fabric.

I'm having this made up with my tailor now as I'm travelling to NYC in Mar, but I can't decide on patch pockets or flaps. Patch feels more summer appropriate to me as all my tropical wool odd jackets are patch. However, this would be my very first tweed/ autumn&winter jacket and I'm leaning towards flap pockets. What do you guys suggest?

Spoiler: Fabric

 

[lordsuperb]

Interesting.....

 

[bjhofkin]

A couple informational questions Re double-sided overcoating cloths:

- Apart from the optionality of using one side or the other, are there any *other* perks/uses of a double-sided cloth?

- So long as both colors are either dark or light, are there any *downsides* of a double-sided cloth (other than forcing one to have to make a tough decision)?

 

[Bespoke DJP]

A couple informational questions Re double-sided overcoating cloths:

- Apart from the optionality of using one side or the other, are there any *other* perks/uses of a double-sided cloth?

- So long as both colors are either dark or light, are there any *downsides* of a double-sided cloth (other than forcing one to have to make a tough decision)?

Not something within your chosen Ulster territory, but one may use a double-sided overcoating cloth for a double-face balmacaan overcoat.

Otherwise, you just use the internal color in lieu of lining.

Best,

Dimitris