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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

konstantis

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(@konstantis) Konstanti hi,

It's been written before, but here it goes: most mills - for sure the Italian ones - have 4 shades of grey solid flannel:

- shade 1: light grey
- shade 2: light-to-mid grey
- shade 3: mid-to-dark grey
- shade 4: charcoal

I presume that you are between shades 2 & 3, whereas I think the one of @aristoi bcn is shade 2. If I were you, I would chose shade 2 with herringbone (can be used as a "Blazer-suit"), or shade 3 in a solid form.

Best,

Dimitris
Thank you dear Dimitri.
 

buddyfuzz

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IME, it's always easier to wear a slightly darker coat because the eye is used to seeing a darker jacket with lighter colored pants. Some men also feel uncomfortable wearing white pants, so there's a certain "limit" to how light they're willing to go with trousers.

IMO, the two jackets you posted above can be worn with mid-gray trousers. Would go with a cloth like tropical wool for that hard finish.

Otherwise, I also find that it's easy to match sport coats + trousers if you use the same color, but go a few shades lighter or darker. So for the two jackets above, you can go tan or dark brown for the pants. The only catch: for the jacket on the right (the lighter of the two), you will want to go towards cream rather than tan to get more contrast.

Draper's Ascot 4-ply also has this specific shade that sits between brown and gray (#18055). I have a sport coat that's similar to the color you have on the right. I wear it with these pants all the time and really like how the combo looks. You're working with two similar colors -- brown -- and both on the cooler side of the spectrum. The outfit ends up looking very sophisticated. I think they work with black tassel loafers or dark brown derbies.

No Man Walks Alone sells a RTW version of it. The price is surprisingly good ($455). I bought mine custom and think I paid about $300 for the cloth alone.

View attachment 1706216 View attachment 1706217
Very helpful. I think I'll go with the lighter cloth as I am trying to break out and explore the 'northern lights' combos, and this feels like a relatively accessible shade to do it with. I have a Dark Grey fresco-esque pair of trousers (Dugdale TropicalAir) that looks lovely next to the swatch. Seems like a very easy way to dress the jacket up, but I also have some Brisbane Moss cream cotton trousers to go the other way. The right shade of Olive also seems to work well.

The Drapers looks fantastic. I wish more mills/merchants had that Grey/Brown shade in various finishes as I do think it'd extremely versatile for cold colour palettes.
 

moimael

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Thinking of having a balmacaan made in solid charcoal and debating fabric types and weights. live in canada where it can get quite cold, but dont want to go overkill with a 28oz fabric. what is everyone's take on 15oz vs 18oz. or should i be looking heavier?

I've also been considering the loro piana storm system fabrics but those seem to be in the 290gsm 8.6oz range.

One of my favorite all time coats is a land's end duffel coat made from tiroler loden and lined with thinsulate. has anyone ever lined an overcoat with thinsulate?
It really depends where you live in Canada. I have the SEH Kelly Bal, 28oz, in Montreal, and it's great for the beginning of the winter. I don't see myself wearing it when it's -30. I think -10, -15 with a good layering is as far as it can go.
 

whirlwynds

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It really depends where you live in Canada. I have the SEH Kelly Bal, 28oz, in Montreal, and it's great for the beginning of the winter. I don't see myself wearing it when it's -30. I think -10, -15 with a good layering is as far as it can go.
very good advice. thank you! what do you move to when it gets colder? parka?
 

Encathol Epistemia

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It seems that my inner thighs am become death, destroyer of trousers. I had a pair made of a very lovely, but seemingly rather soft cloth, which I presume was a flannel, a few months ago that being worn for one work day a week since July have worn a hole into. I suppose that I should have known better, but the texture was delightful and I loved the dark steel grey color; they were also rather comfortable. Nevertheless, they are now not suitable for wear. (The matching waistcoat is still usable, at least)

I would appreciate guidance as to the most resilient, hardest-wearing cloths for trousers and whether there are flannels that I could be more or less assured would withstand my evidently considerable generation of friction. (Ideally available in a dove grey or steel grey) I assume so given how familiar the phrase, "flannel trousers," is, but I am for the moment skitish to an unreasonable degree about anything short of steel cuisses. Hand-forged, of course.
 
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moimael

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very good advice. thank you! what do you move to when it gets colder? parka?
Yes. I have a PWVC frobisher with wool wadding that does wonders. I also wear a Buzz Rickson 34oz melton duffle or a B-3 shearling. Down parkas works great too. You can also have a MTM or bespoke thick wool coat made with quilted wool wadding (VBC and the likes have bunch with those). But for extreme temperature, a parka is your best bet, and it can look good if you chose it carefully.
 
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lordsuperb

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It seems that my inner thighs am become death, destroyer of trousers. I had a pair made of a very lovely, but seemingly rather soft cloth, which I presume was a flannel, a few months ago that being worn for one work day a week since July have worn a hole into. I suppose that I should have known better, but the texture was delightful and I loved the dark steel grey color; they were also rather comfortable. Nevertheless, they are now not suitable for wear. (The matching waistcoat is still usable, at least)

I would appreciate guidance as to the most resilient, hardest-wearing cloths for trousers and whether there are flannels that I could be more or less assured would withstand my evidently considerable generation of friction. (Ideally available in a dove grey or steel grey) I assume so given how familiar the phrase, "flannel trousers," is, but I am for the moment skitish to an unreasonable degree about anything short of steel cuisses. Hand-forged, of course.
I have the same issues with flannel and stick with calvary twill in the heavier weights. These will take a beating.
Screen Shot 2021-11-22 at 10.55.56 PM.png
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Screen Shot 2021-11-22 at 10.55.07 PM.png
 

dieworkwear

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It seems that my inner thighs am become death, destroyer of trousers. I had a pair made of a very lovely, but seemingly rather soft cloth, which I presume was a flannel, a few months ago that being worn for one work day a week since July have worn a hole into. I suppose that I should have known better, but the texture was delightful and I loved the dark steel grey color; they were also rather comfortable. Nevertheless, they are now not suitable for wear. (The matching waistcoat is still usable, at least)

I would appreciate guidance as to the most resilient, hardest-wearing cloths for trousers and whether there are flannels that I could be more or less assured would withstand my evidently considerable generation of friction. (Ideally available in a dove grey or steel grey) I assume so given how familiar the phrase, "flannel trousers," is, but I am for the moment skitish to an unreasonable degree about anything short of steel cuisses. Hand-forged, of course.
Hard twills will wear harder than soft woolens. Try cavalry twill or whipcord. Both are available in the Holland & Sherry Dakota book.
 

Sreezy36

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Hard twills will wear harder than soft woolens. Try cavalry twill or whipcord. Both are available in the Holland & Sherry Dakota book.
I have the same issues with flannel and stick with calvary twill in the heavier weights. These will take a beating.
View attachment 1708437 View attachment 1708438 View attachment 1708440
would heavy weight worsted twills also work well as beater odd trousers? 400-440g worsted twills. For example:
https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/6218058-city-of-london-light-gray-solid

D3065087-B9DD-4DC7-AA47-BCD9046386CA.jpeg
3AF554FC-5119-4C8B-920D-C07C72CC03FD.jpeg

25FB1305-9160-4FD8-90E9-BFFCAF041F3D.jpeg
 
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lordsuperb

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would heavy weight worsted twills also work well as beater odd trousers? 400-440g worsted twills. For example:
https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/6218058-city-of-london-light-gray-solid

View attachment 1708561 View attachment 1708562
View attachment 1708574
My trousers at 600 grams are 6 years old and still going strong but they've had limited use since the start of Covid. Also had a pair of worsted calvary twill trousers around 440 gms which lasted me 7 years with repeated use. Moving forward I plan on using heavy weight twill (=< 600gms ) for trousers.

If you have a pair of trousers you like I would buy multiple pairs.
 
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Marshak

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My trousers at 600 grams are 6 years old and still going on strong but they've had limited use since the start of Covid. Also had a pair of worsted calvary twill trousers around 440 gms which lasted me 7 years with repeated use. Moving forward I plan on using heavy weight twill (=< 600gms ) for trousers.

If you have a pair of trousers you like I would buy multiple pairs.
To which heavy twill are you thinking?
 

dieworkwear

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would heavy weight worsted twills also work well as beater odd trousers? 400-440g worsted twills. For example:
https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/6218058-city-of-london-light-gray-solid

View attachment 1708561 View attachment 1708562
View attachment 1708574
Worsteds generally wear harder than woolens. The downside to a hard-finished fabric is that it can develop a shine, whereas a fuzzy woolen has a nap.

14oz is pretty normal for pants. I personally don't like going heavier for pants because I don't like how the fabric ends up looking and hanging.
 
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Concordia

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Heavier weight works better with braces. But then you are committing to a jacket or at least a sweater.
 

lordsuperb

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To which heavy twill are you thinking?
I still squat and power clean heavy so my thighs are constantly rubbing together. You may not have to go this route if you have a smaller frame.

But if you want to be like the fabulous Lord Superb just know I like fabrics from Dugdale and W. Bill Calvary. I try to build my fall and winter sport coats around the three fabric colors I posted above in the previous post.
 

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