• Hi, I'm the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

Bespoke DJP

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
589
Reaction score
306
Hi Dimitri , did you ordered direct from them ?

Hi Konstanti,

I haven't yet, but I will. It is a very nice fabric, not flannel-y like the Caccioppoli ones.

Unfortunately, the swatch came just few days before our first lock-down, so the project was frozen.

Best,

Dimitris
 

konstantis

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
323
Reaction score
171
Hi Konstanti,

I haven't yet, but I will. It is a very nice fabric, not flannel-y like the Caccioppoli ones.

Unfortunately, the swatch came just few days before our first lock-down, so the project was frozen.

Best,

Dimitris
Thank you Dimitri.
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
7,550
Reaction score
3,340
^ with that said, have you noticed a change in quality of the same cloths from the same mills over the years? That is, if you always made stuff from, say mill XYZ and cloth # 12345, have you ordered that same cloth a few years later and felt it was different? Of course there could be some slight variation in color due to dyes, etc., but I wonder if the wool itself could differ, too, based on what dww wrote about wool quality.
Yes this has happened but it’s so rare and infrequent , wouldn’t say it’s an issue to watch for. Talking about a significant change in the look, feel and structure of the cloth.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
19,425
Reaction score
46,267
The best way to get the old quality cloths is to go to a vintage store and buy an old suit, then give the vintage suit to your tailor and tell him or her to make a new suit out of this old suit.

Viola. Guaranteed Old World quality.
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
7,550
Reaction score
3,340
The best way to get the old quality cloths is to go to a vintage store and buy an old suit, then give the vintage suit to your tailor and tell him or her to make a new suit out of this old suit.

Viola. Guaranteed Old World quality.
Hoarded cloths that I thought were above average when they are close to being discontinued. Buy all they have in stock. Like;
Holland &Sherry Vendon Hopsack,
H&S Victory flannel, 150’s with cashmere and either vicuña or silver mink. Best flannel ever! (My opinion)
H&S sea island cottons for trousers and jackets.

Scabal doeskin gabardine and their high twist cloth.
Bought these because the of the quality.
After that I buy up all the best jacketing cloth.
Not for the quality but for the color/patterns.
These are a few that come mind.

In hindsight I’m glad I did because there isn't an equal to these in the marketplace at present.
Some clients like a cloth and are disappointed when it’s no longer available. These are the ones I buy so I can continue to offer them.
 
Last edited:

Simon A

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
101
Reaction score
115
I don't think there's something you can look for, but rather something you know from direct experience.

He also noted that older wool fibers were more durable, which he believes is a result of climate change. A lot of wool is sourced from Australia, where there have been droughts. This exec believes this is why fibers today are often more brittle.

If you could easily spot durability with things such as weight or fiber composition, then you wouldn't need such extensive durability tests.
Objective measurement of fleeces on-farm and at the auction house has been developing rapidly over the past 3 decades, supplementing the skills of the woolclasser who works in the shearing shed. In addition to measuring staple length and average fibre diameter, it can very cheaply identify tender fleeces (those susceptible to a break in the fibre due to nutritional setback), standard deviation of fibre diameter within the sample (uniformity, in other words), and tensile strength. All this is information available to the topmaker at the combing mill when their agent buys the fleece, and they are correlated with how the spun fibre, and to an extent the derived cloth, performs. They are not a perfect substitute for objective durability tests like the Martindale test (resistance to rubbing) on finished fabric but they are correlated. Topmaker, spinner and weaver/finisher have very detailed objective information on the fibres they are working with, but merchants may choose not to communicate that to tailors or garment factory operators, which I think is a pity.

With superfine and ultrafine fleeces, some growers will break a skirted fleece into further pieces to produce two lots with smaller variation of fibre diameter than if submitted as an unbroken skirted fleece, which increases the overall sales price of the fleece.

The tendency over the past three decades has been for reduced variation within wool bales, which makes the topmaker's blending decisions much easier and helps him/her produce top to a tighter spec at a lower cost. Some people bemoan that greater uniformity in a top destined for fine worsteds reduced crease resistance and durability in the fabric (the rationale for the old Smiths Whole Fleece line, which had a higher variability in fibre diameter within each thread than most, and hence more strong, stiff fibres that resist breaking or creasing) but it is not the only factor at play.

For those interested in the interface between woolgrower and the textile supply chain, the attached article is interesting reading. An extract;

" It is also important to define the term topmaker. It is often loosely applied to a company or mill that converts raw wool into top. That is in fact a “comber”. A topmaker is the person that undertakes the blend engineering. Most exporters carry out the topmaking function and all combing mills will have a topmaker on their staff. The topmaker can in fact be regarded as the “cook” in the wool combing industry. He takes different farm lots and blends them together to meet the specifications and price restraints placed on him by the combing mill, much the same way as a cook takes flour, butter, sugar, eggs etc. to bake a cake. If the chef wants a chocolate cake he must add chocolate in the same way as the topmaker can and probably will add pieces or skirtings to a blend if the end product is to be used for dark suiting fabric. In another example, the topmaker will only use low diameter fleece wool if the top is to be used in pastel shade ladies next-to-skin knitwear. The analogy between cook and topmaker is a very apt one."
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Work From Home: What's Your Attire?

  • PJs & Slippers

  • Cozy loungewear

  • Casual outfit (wool cardigan, chinos, etc)

  • Suit or sport coat and dress trousers


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
452,333
Messages
9,795,124
Members
204,390
Latest member
DealMasterDOT
Top