Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[Mr. Six]

Oh man, I just remembered! This was the thread that started it all. Foo was looking for The OneShirt, which is what led him to Simonnot Godard chambray. Carl again reiterated his suspicions it's a poly blend, which is what got Foo to burn strips of fabric.

The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

My Matuozzo shirts are truly on their last legs. I can no longer wear them into a work environment without feeling conspicuously sprezzed out. The fraying has reached catastrophic levels. The collar and cuff edges are fully worn through to the interlining and some shirts are even fully worn...

www.styleforum.net

View attachment 1235637

Have you had the fabric made up? How is it?

 

[dieworkwear]

Have you had the fabric made up? How is it?

Have a bunch of shirts in it. I think it's great. It's basically an end-on-end with a mottled yarn.

 

[smittycl]

And today I have a stockpile of great French shirting because people let their dogma override their direct experience with the world.

A word on this sentence. I agree that dogma is self-defeating.and can actually get you killed in real life. Strict dogma is best avoided for reasons that don't need to be listed here. A little doctrine is okay, though. Doctrine is experience and can seem like bias because, well, it is biased. Experience can help rule out poor choices and bad courses of action. All ideally with an open mind toward new experiences.

Having arrived in DC with one suit I had to put a wardrobe together quickly. Stay-at-home wife, two kids, new mortgage, and such I couldn't just run out and grab piles of Zegna. Ended up buying stuff at Macy's and Jos. A. Bank. Suits, shirts, ties, lots with synthetic blends. Not good. Scratchy, cheap quality, etc.. All the things we associate with garbage here on SF. Managed to reach up to BB a few times but that was an extravagance.

Then, getting more senior (and discovering Styleforum among other resources), I got wise to finer clothing. After a decade I now buy Zegna, Canali, RLPL, Finamore and C&J. Am now reaching up toward Isaia and JL/EG. I see no problem looking askance at fabrics with synthetics. I'm sure there are fine examples of synthetic blends out there but I'm mostly incurious. Will keep an open mind but see no reason to consider them at the moment.

Have found the recent arguments to the contrary unconvincing (just like those arguing the opposite position found mine!).

 

[Mr. Six]

I wondered whether the synthetic content (if you got pieces that included synthetic) make it seem any different post-chambraygate.

 

[Concordia]

My karma ran over my dogma.

 

[dieworkwear]

A word on this sentence. I agree that dogma is self-defeating.and can actually get you killed in real life. Strict dogma is best avoided for reasons that don't need to be listed here. A little doctrine is okay, though. Doctrine is experience and can seem like bias because, well, it is biased. Experience can help rule out poor choices and bad courses of action. All ideally with an open mind toward new experiences.

Having arrived in DC with one suit I had to put a wardrobe together quickly. Stay-at-home wife, two kids, new mortgage, and such I couldn't just run out and grab piles of Zegna. Ended up buying stuff at Macy's and Jos. A. Bank. Suits, shirts, ties, lots with synthetic blends. Not good. Scratchy, cheap quality, etc.. All the things we associate with garbage here on SF. Managed to reach up to BB a few times but that was an extravagance.

Then, getting more senior (and discovering Styleforum among other resources), I got wise to finer clothing. After a decade I now buy Zegna, Canali, RLPL, Finamore and C&J. Am now reaching up toward Isaia and JL/EG. I see no problem looking askance at fabrics with synthetics. I'm sure there are fine examples of synthetic blends out there but I'm mostly incurious. Will keep an open mind but see no reason to consider them at the moment.

Have found the recent arguments to the contrary unconvincing (just like those arguing the opposite position found mine!).

I feel like you conflate whether you personally choose to wear something with whether other people should wear something. This comes up in SWD, cotton suits, and now synthetic fibers. It's fine to not wear something -- I chose to not wear a lot of things -- but that's different from saying that no one ever should wear such a thing.

Each time you ask questions about who would use synthetic blends in tailoring or who would sell such a cloth, when those questions are answered, it feels like you then reject the answer and move on to a new question. And then you repeat that you would never wear such a thing when that was never the issue (no one is saying you should wear it -- that's your choice).

I wondered whether the synthetic content (if you got pieces that included synthetic) make it seem any different post-chambraygate.

I mean, all the properties make sense once you realize it's 20% poly. ASW used to sing about another white shirting that was wrinkle resistant. I suspect that one was a poly blend as well.

 

[smittycl]

Yes, I’ll readily admit I mirror-image quite a bit.

 

[dieworkwear]

Yes, I’ll readily admit I mirror-image quite a bit.

No worries! I do it a lot as well. Luckily this is just clothes, which is inconsequential either way.

Only tangentially related, but I've been watching All Def's Great Taste YouTube series, which is comedians arguing why their subjective taste in food is the most correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong. These are the only fun arguments.

Spoiler

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I love the look of cotton suits, but I think they wear warm at least the only one I owned years back did. Aside from the warmth I have a hard time getting over paying a lot of money to have a garment tailored that's made in a fabric that is ultimately fickle when it comes to stretching, shrinking, and fading. Might as well get something RTW. Somebody on here years ago said Mariano convinced a client not to bother with bespoke cotton. I kind of find it along the lines of the black sport coat, which Derek tried to convince me to get RTW.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

For synthetics, I don't have an issue with them in blends where they don't make the cloth too warm to wear. Also, I think synthetics have come a long way since the 70's. Some of the stretch stuff will stretch out and never retract in the same way as it once did, for this reason I'd avoid them in tailored garments. I have some Italian denim with 2% something or another and I love it. Some other synthetics have pilling problems. I am not sure which pill and which don't, or if it is a quality thing, but a couple years ago I picked up some cotton shirting in this amazing open weave from a market in Cambodia. I thought it would be great for shirts so I brought it to my shirt maker. It took me one wear, wash and iron to discover that it was actually either 100% synthetic, or a blend. It barely got wet, which is a sign of synthetic, it never shrunk at all, and it developed pilling at stress points, and smelled like melting plastic when ironed on the cotton setting. I have five of these darn things now. If the pilling weren't there they would be great shirts, I love the feel and open weave, but dammit the pilling. Shame on me for buying unknown fabric without a Zippo handy.

 

[reidd]

Cotton is for shirts. I had a cotton suit one time and although the look is nice, it didn't wear or age well at all. I much prefer linen for this purpose. The only cotton suit I'd go for is seersucker.

 

[Concordia]

Never tried a corduroy jacket, but that is another option for cotton. One big problem there is that I really prefer wide wale, which may just be too thick for that application. Counter-arguments welcome!

Another thing which would be interesting if only it could be dry-cleaned is Nantucket (Breton) red canvas. Something completely unconstructed, perhaps, so it could go through the wash...

And for other summer wear, Madras is right next to seersucker.

 

[Bespoke DJP]

Dear @patrickBOOTH,

I agree in most of the issues that you just raised.

It depends on the climate and personal tolerance, but IMHO cotton (for our climate at least) is a spring suit. For some years now I have a special interest to military green cotton which is extremely nice for SC / suit / blazersuit; haven't decided yet, mainly due to associations from my military years (whoever has served in the army, would know what I am talking about). I firmly believe that cotton, or cotton-mix is the best fabric to depict the military green shade, seconded by linen.

Try and check Jean-Manuel M.... tumblr and you will find some fine iterations of military green Sport Coats and suits that some gentlemen opted to make. Paris, France is way northern than my location, so (beside extenuating circumstances) their summer is (or in essence used to be?) our spring.

Best,

Dimitris

 

[Bespoke DJP]

Dear @Concordia,

Unfortunately I have no pictures (and Hallmadden(dot)com hasn't uploaded it yet), but in the new Anteprima FW 2019-20, Ermenegildo Zegna has some very nice wide wale corduroy overcoat fabrics; perhaps this could be an alternative to a jacket, especially if you are fond of a short overcoat (the length of a peacoat for instance); the best of all worlds!

Like I wrote before, a visit to my cloth provider is imminent, and upon his receipt of the new Zegna corduroy bunch, I will peruse it and post information and my impressions from it.

Best,

Dimitris

 

[dieworkwear]

I have two sport coats coming from Solito. It's my first order and depending on how they fit, I think I'm going to get a taupe cotton suit next. In San Francisco, I think cotton could be a three-season suit. Will at ASW has said he uses his at least spring and fall.

Daniel Perry at NMWA wrote a post recently on taupe. His suit is cotton. Going to try to find a fabric like this, although ideally with some kind of synthetic blend to make it more comfortable.