Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. Alan Bee

    Alan Bee Senior member

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    Hi Sprout,

    Roomy suits look nice: To you and many others, I'm sure they do. Precisely the reason why Sack Suits exist and were invented - Just have a look at JFK's old pictures. But then again, I am not interested in a Sack Suit otherwise I would not have scoured the earth to arrive at the doorstep of a Neapolitan tailor.

    In Alan Flusser's "Dressing The Man", there's an entire section that discusses fit at the coat waist and suppression, replete with diagrams. He suggests that one should be able to get no more than two fingers spread apart between your torso and the coat button. I can get an entire fit into my coats.

    The diagrams also suggest there should be some slight tension at the waist button which serves as the fulcrum of the coat and body in general, but not so much that horizontal lines begin the appear. So all this talk about wearing 'Rice Sacks" in the name of a "Classic Look" is quite befuddling and frankly doesn't interest me.

    If you like a Sack Suit, by all means go for it. Some put years into a disciplined diet and the gym to preserve a certain silhouette and I'm not sure why one should pay a tailor through the nose to obscure the evidence.

    My 2 cents

    Alan Bee
     
  2. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    That is a straw man argument that makes a false dichotomy, and I think you know it.

    You look sharp and spry and youthful and healthy and go-getting and suave. But I would not feel at ease and utterly relaxed to have a conversation with you about Best Romanian Watercolor Illustrators of the 1960s while chomping on focaccia in a little garden terrace. The severity of your getup would not be conducice to relaxation.

    Your zip-up sweater that you wore to Cappelli's grotto was more conducive to relaxation. Although Mssr. Cappelli looked quite on edge.
     
  3. Alan Bee

    Alan Bee Senior member

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    You old fox Sprout :) Never short of a counter argument, are you?

    Indeed I wear my 15 year old navy cardigan quite comfortably and I often wear such a look circumstances warranting. Then again, here we are on a forum that caters to precision tailored clothing. Should I then deduce from your mini-lecture above that tailored clothing should wear like a cardigan or better still, pajamas? At least in order to confirm my place with, and secure the high privilege of discussing ancient art over English breakfast tea with Sprout in his little garden terrace??

    And your earlier comment or pock shot regarding folks from "The Commonwealth" and enunciation of the word "gross-grain", I suppose you folks from the "The Empire" didn't quite do a complete job at imparting your language, did you? Thankfully, I have chanced upon Sprout on SF and he can pick up from where his forbearers left off :)

    Alan Bee
     
  4. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    Dude, the only mini-lecture going on is from you, lol.

    It should wear like pajamas! Very comfortable but handsome. No need for a sack suit. A little suggestion of volume creates savoir-faire and eases tension.

    1960s is ancient art? Egad! What is the world coming to? And whyfor do you malign my garden terrace? We can also do it in a penthouse bar with booming bass if you like.

    You lost me on the last one. I thought you were from a Queen's English country. Which empire are we talking about? The Roman empire? The only grain they grossed was wheat to fill the granaries of their robust agricultural stockyards. Anyway, I'm not concerned with enunciation, but pronunciation. Shouldn't the ess be soft? It is, after all, a French word. Please clarify if there is a special pronunciation.
     
  5. Alan Bee

    Alan Bee Senior member

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    Sprout, I refer to the British empire. You may be too young to remember it. You know ...... the one your forbearers lost because they bit off a bit more than they could chew. LOL

    Enunciation, pronunciation .... hmmm. Why do I get the odd feeling this was ultimately gonna go in this direction?

    Of course I should be delighted to join His Sartorial Highness in your esteemed garden terrace should I be deemed worthy :)

    Alan Bee
     
  6. WillingToLearn

    WillingToLearn Senior member

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    Alan Bee,
    Please keep posting and making your videos. While I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, you have a well informed point of view and your posts and videos represent a true rarity in CM on this site these days - something that keeps attention.

    As for your drop and the issues it presents, the suits in the videos look good.
     
  7. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    I am chagrined to inform you that I am from an altogether different empire.

    Will you or will you not address the grain that is gross? Is this pronunciation the accepted form in your region? I am addressing these pock-shots to you as per your request, my liege!

    Speaking of the Roman Empire, Holy or otherwise, there was a user on this forum who held utopian fantasies about Roman statesmen and received lots of money from evildoers in the American government in exchange for writing propaganda for them. These funds were used to buy many bespoke suits, the results of which were analyzed extensively in a book you may have read alongside Mssr. Flusser's own. In this book, the author extols the importance of suits that must feel as though wearing pajamas! What say you?
     
  8. Alan Bee

    Alan Bee Senior member

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    Thank you WillingToLearn. Like you, I am "willing to learn" and here to learn so every comment adds to that well of knowledge. Also if you haven't, you may subscribe to the YouTube Channel (OkeyBespoke) to receive the vlogs directly (ex SF).

    Thank you good sir!

    Alan Bee
     
  9. Alan Bee

    Alan Bee Senior member

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    My Dear Sprout,

    I will resist the temptation to speculate on the source of Manton's Finances, but I will say that I owe much of my sartorial vocabulary and repertoire to him, Will Bohlke of A Suitable Wardrobe, and a number of others who have come before us.

    I have in fact read Mantons book "The Suit" cover to cover. I'm staring at it sitting on my coffee table as I type.

    As I understand it, Manton now works for Donald Trump at the White House and I doubt his new boss will take kindly to him wearing anything that bears a remote semblance to pajamas to the office ;)

    Alan Bee
     
  10. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    Will Boehlke, the very pater familias (since we are on a Roman kick) of the pajama-suit brethren!

    Are you sure these are your mentors, milord? Two strident advocates of the most pajamaesque of suits!

    Will there be a forthcoming vlog in which you model your Grecian physique? Roman it is not, but Greek will have to do.
     

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