Understanding various shoes (Oxford, Wingtip, Cap Toe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by prady, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. prady

    prady Active Member

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    I've spent sometime understanding various shoes. I read a lot on google and here on SF but some qns still remain.

    -- Oxford cap toe vs Brogues vs wingtips ---

    -- From what i always thought was that brogues are casual shoes and not to be worn with suits. They go with jeans, chinos and BC environment.
    -- Oxford cap toe would be a typical cap toe shoe and it can be a wing tip coz of W but will have no perforations. This is the good black formal shoe everyone should own for very formal environment.

    Also, There can be a wing tip brogue, a wingtip cap toe, but no such thing as cap toe brogues as cap toe defines our formal shoe with no perforations but when I go to the shoe sites like AE, i see brogues in Dress Shoe section.

    SF pls educate me, and pardon my ignorance.

    Also, the only "shoe explained" which had all information on SF has no pictures anymore :(

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/701/shoes-explained

    Well the reason Im researching is coz I have to buy myself a Formal shoe for wedding and i'm confused. For me this is a oxford cap toe

    http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF270_1_40000000001_-1
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  2. DerHoggz

    DerHoggz Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_shoe

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brogue_shoe

    Oxford (also called Balmoral) denotes how the piece the eyelets are in is connected to the vamp, namely below it. The opposing style is Derby or blucher, which is more casual. Brogues are punched (mostly, not austerity brogues however) and can be either balmoral or blucher (Oxford or Derby). Cap-toe denotes the extra piece of leather on the toe, and can be brogued, cap toes are generally considered less formal than plain toe. Wingtips are another name for a type of broguing, with the characteristic "W"s.

    The Park Avenue is a cap-toe Oxford.
     
  3. Geezer

    Geezer Senior member

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    Prady

    The traditional snarky SF greeting would be "do a search, noob", but I shall spare you that as I am in a generous mood. That and saying you should not waste your money on AEs, but instead sell your car or a kidney to buy Edward Greens, G and G, Lobb bespoke, or something else that costs four figures a pair, and maybe four figures a shoe.

    Try this:

    http://www.throughtherye.com/flusser/ch5.htm

    I don't agree with every single thing Flusser says (and some of the pictures don't line up perfectly with the text), but most of us would regard this as a fairly authoritative basic description of shoe styles and suitability. It is probably far better than most of what you have found elsewhere about men's shoes on the internet, which is full of rubbish written by idiots.

    And yes, a balmoral/oxford captoe such as the AE Park Avenue is indeed a classic and appropriate shoe for wear with a suit to job interviews, weddings and so on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
  4. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    Okay, a few terms here to start.

    Oxford: Generally this means closed lacing. It is separate from a cap toe, which describes the toecap. Your post seems to imply that you think you can have a captoe oxford that is a wingtip. This is wrong. Captoe and wingtip are mutually exclusive. Oxford is the opposite of blucher or derby, both of which mean open lacing, where the part holding the laces does not come together in a v at the bottom.

    Captoe means that there is a cap with a straight edge on the toe. It's generally a pretty formal style. Wingtip means that instead of that straight edged cap, there's a wing shaped piece. Plain toe means nothing on the front, moc toe means that the front of the shoe has something like you see on the front of a penny loafer. All of these styles can be made with either open or closed lacing.

    Brouging can be added to any style. It's just punching- you can have a captoe brogue, you just make a shoe with a captoe and punch some holes in the cap. Look up the Allen Edmonds Strand. Now, to add some confusion, when you hear "punch cap", that means there's only brouging along the stitching of the cap- the 5th avenue being the Allen Edmonds example. Both of those shoes are oxfords.

    As for formality, it depends on a lot of factors. Color is a big one, traditionally, oxford/derby matters, and the less brouging, the more formal. But there are a whole hell of a lot of brouged shoes that can be worn with a suit perfectly reasonably. Black captoe oxfords are as formal as you can get within the range of what can be worn with a suit, but you have a lot more options than that.
     
  5. prady

    prady Active Member

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    Very informative, clears a lot of confusion. Thnx guys.
     
  6. glenjay

    glenjay Senior member

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  7. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    To clear up something that may confuse the OP in a few posts, in many places (primarily england) "Full Brogue" refers to a specific model of shoe- a brouged wingtip- that's historically closely associated with having broguing. Which is how you can have a shoe known as the "Austerity Brogue" which has no broguing- it's a wingtip design with no punching. There's also a half-brogue, which is something like the Allen Edmonds Strand I mentioned earlier- a heavily brogued captoe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  8. glenjay

    glenjay Senior member

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    Specifically, a half-brogue (also referred to as a semi-brogue) has broguing along the cap toe seam, as well as a toe medallion. A quarter-brogue only has broguing along the cap toe seam, but no toe medallion.
     

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