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UNCOMFORTABLE SHOULDER? forward shoulders

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by a tailor, Sep 2, 2012.

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  1. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Does your suit coat feel as though its fighting you? Is it pushing back against your shoulder like all the weight of the coat is resting on the tip of the shoulder? And even though the shoulders look fine, upper front of the armhole feels too wide? So that the front of the coat seems to cover your arms.
    If the coats shoulder front is doing these things to you then you have forward pitched shoulders.
    run your hands along your shoulder. You can feel a slight curve to the front, this is normal.
    But you may have a pronounced curve. Thats what tailors call foreward pitched shoulders.
    On m2m, and on custom/bespoke garments just call the tailors attention to this and all is well.

    But on rtw suits, alterations are needed. Its called shifting the shoulders.
    Flip up the coat collar. See the different cloth, its the under collar. And the cloth of the suit extends under there. All depends on how much cloth is under there. At least 3/4 to 1 inch. So here is how it goes.

    The sleeves are removed, also the collar is removed except where it is attached to the lapels.
    The shoulders are also opened up. all the linings are opened where needed.
    The first diagram shows the neck hole exposed. the larger curve shows where the under collar was sewn.Now the front shoulder seam is shifted outward and sewn in that shifted position
    Check the dotted lines. At the neck the cloth that was under hidden under the collar moves out.
    And we have a new curved line at the gorge where the collar is reattached.
    At the arm hole we now have excess cloth see that dotted line. This excess is cut off and we have a new armhole curve.
    Now all that is left to do is to put all the pieces back together.

    As long as the sleeves are detached, they can be re hung to suit your arms pitch.
    At an extra cost naturally.

    If you copy this and show it to your tailor, be sure to tell him this is an alteration. It is not a cutting table job for making a new garment. He will have to do his own pattern work to accomplish the same results.





    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
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  2. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

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    Thanks for this thread. I believe I have this problem (on all of my RTW coats my shoulders push against the chest), but I'm guessing it will be $$$ to fix... need to talk about it with my tailor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  3. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You might print out the diagram and show it to him.
    that will insure that you are both understand each other.
    you might also add another $$ to that.

    if the tightness is all the way across the chest from the lapels
    to the armhole. then its just too small a size for you.
     
  4. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

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    Wow, that's at least two $ too much [​IMG]

    Let me post a couple pictures on the fit feedback thread, as I think the jacket chest is fine. it's shoulder and armhole shape what seems off. Thanks again [​IMG]

    EDIT: Can't post pics. My other camera has died :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  5. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A Tailor

    Thanks. Unfortunately, one of my MTMs seems not to have been done to take into account of my forward pitch. Or, they may have thout they were doing this but did not compensate enough for it.

    They took up the arm hole a little and they also pulled up the cloth at the chest, from the base model. I am not completely sure why they did the second thing, but I think it was to due to my somewhat sloped shoulders. Outwardly the jacket looks great, and I think they nailed everything else right. But I find that after wearing it much of they day, it's actually uncomfortable. And it's constricting to stretch out my arm.

    Is it clear to you what they might have done wrong? the base model jacket the worked from felt fine on this point..

    This has been very helpful. Again thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
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  6. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You guys would be surprised how many tailors think they have to shift the shoulder in the opposite direction of what is shown here to adjust for forward shoulders. Shifting the front towards the neck actually makes the jacket fit worse when you have forward shoulders. This is the correct method.
     
  7. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Just want to ask one other qution, which might be of interest to other MTMers. Is there something in how they altered for me from their base model that could cause this tightness when the base model was not tight? If so, something to ask about when doing MTM if one has forward shoulders.

    Also, I was thinking about this a little more, and I am not spatial enough to get it. The offending seam where it presses the shoulder is at the same place right? So what is changing to ease the pressure?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  8. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sloping and forward is a more difficult combination to adjust for. There is more to it than what Alex has shown and it may be beyond the MTM process to execute all the necessary work. They may have sloped the shoulders too much on your MTM.
     
  9. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Thanks Despos for weighing in too.

    1. I still don't get how the remedy fixes the problem.

    2. Would be great to have something in the tailor tutorial on how to accommodate sloped, front shoulders since that is me!

    Thanks, both of you again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  10. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It's an engineering explanation and since it is technical it isn't easy to grasp. Don't worry, a lot of tailors don't get how the remedy fixes the problem either.

    The solution isn't prescriptive in that a tutorial would work the same in every situation. After cutting the shoulders perfectly it would require iron work applied to the cloth and the canvass, shaping the shoulder to match your shoulder.
     
  11. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Which probably means that finding someone who can do it correctly will be difficult, cost aside. I wouldn't trust a bridge builder to fix an existing bridge who didn't understand the principles being applied.

    I cant see fixing the jacket being done correctly unless there was understanding. Here, for example, how much to pull out from under the collar.

    I am curious: when done right, can one maintain the structure of the rest? For example, if sleeves correctly altered and in good taste, no effect on the rest of the jacket. If this shift done as above, does it maintain the correct fit at the shoulder and chest? Or is there some sacrifice?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  12. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    at five "$", I feel like I must be in bespoke tailoring territory, but everyone's "$"s are different, if you know what I mean.

    If you don't mind, what do you think a reasonable estimate would be on this alteration? $200 dollars? more? This must be among the most expensive alterations?
     
  13. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    this is one of the drawbacks of made to measure.
    In m2m we are dealing with altering a finished garment.
    In custom work the changes are made as the construction goes along.

    Also when you are ordering from 3,000 miles away, and you are speaking
    customer talk whereas the tailor is speaking tailor talk, plus the different
    two language translations.
    This is why i call ordering on the net a crap shoot.
    You can win a beautiful suit or, you can receive a piece of junk.
    m2m ordered from a local tailor increases the chances of success.
    Thats providing he is a real tailor, and not just a sales man.

    sorry but from your description i cant imagine what was done.
    It just does not sound like tailoring.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  14. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Senior member

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    Sorry for bringing this back to life. But I just re-read all the thread again and have a very simple, that might sound dumb, doubt that I want to clarify. The foward pitch is in my shoulders, right?
     
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  15. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    yes the term refers to the shape of the customers shoulder, "forward pitched shoulders".

    but among the tailors description of the alteration being done is, "shifting the shoulder.".

    in the m2m or the custom cutting room the term is to "straighten the shoulder".
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  16. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Senior member

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    Thanks! I've reading about this and the sleeve pitch, cause I think that maybe my jackets have this problem/problems. Cause I don't feel that my shoulders fit in the shoulder line of the jacket, sorry I don't know how to describe this, but one thing I know is that my shoulders are a bit more in front of me rather than to the side.
     
  17. Superfluous

    Superfluous Senior member

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    It's tough enough finding a tailor willing to do somewhat complex (although not really) alterations... let alone this.
     
  18. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

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    Alright, so let me see if I understand why this works - when shifting the shoulder in that direction, even though it looks like you're moving the shoulders toward the back, what you're actually doing is cutting excess cloth from the front part of the shoulder, thus making it narrower, while the back part of stays the same; and what forward shoulders need is less cloth in the front. Is that right?

    Now, I don't really know how to approach my tailor about this - he's seen I have forward shoulders, and has not suggested this alteration. I don't wanna sound like I'm teaching him his job...

    Here's a pic of the problem I have with my latest MTM coat and that I believe is due to forward shoulders. The quality is poor but I hope you can see what I mean.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  19. a tailor

    a tailor Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    might downloading the diagram. and showing it to your tailor.
    he must look underneath the collar at the gorge, to see if there is enough cloth.
    he needs at least 1/2" to move the seam plus 1/4" to resew the collarin place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  20. chocsosa

    chocsosa Senior member

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