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Uh oh...Floyd flunks!

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Dakota rube, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    Don't gloat -- I doubt all of the top 6 will be disqualified. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Actually, the Spaniard next in line is rather charming, well-spoken, and (at least apparently) humble.
     
  2. 4Mica

    4Mica Senior member

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    He is also a good friend of Floyd Landis.
     
  3. 4Mica

    4Mica Senior member

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    Floyd is dead to me. The sport of cycling is a nothing more than a circus these days.


    My sentiments exactly. The last great cycling champion in my mind was Greg Lemond, every one since then is suspect in my mind. Seeing Eddy and Bernard on the podium with Floyd was a beautiful thing which has been soiled by Floyd's apparent cheating.
     
  4. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    I, too, am rapidly becoming disgusted with the whole cycling world. Is the doping (etc.) so rampant that there are no "clean" champions? What amazes me is Landis' insistence in his innocence. Is he so certain that the "B" sample will clear him? Or is he merely an incurable liar?

    Next year's Tour will go on without my interest.
     
  5. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I, too, am rapidly becoming disgusted with the whole cycling world. Is the doping (etc.) so rampant that there are no "clean" champions? What amazes me is Landis' insistence in his innocence. Is he so certain that the "B" sample will clear him? Or is he merely an incurable liar?

    Next year's Tour will go on without my interest.

    Well, I think it's kind of like Rafael Palmeiro or Barry Bonds. Once someone has gone down that road, there aren't a lot of exits that lead to acceptable destinations (acceptable, that is, to someone of a mind that would have taking the cheating road in the first place). Assuming he's thinking "tactically", trying to brazen it out and hoping - even against long odds - that the samples will be compromised or some other fortuity will allow him to skate - is a rational (albeit disgraceful) choice.
     
  6. Quirk

    Quirk Senior member

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    I don't know anything about Palmiero, but Bonds has always been regarded as an arrogant, self-centered guy, so his 'alleged' doping is not surprising. From what I've read, people pretty much think of Landis as a humble and forthright guy, that's why I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it doesn't look good for him.

    As more and more sophisticated drugs evolve, does the likelihood of false positives increase or decrease?
     
  7. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I don't know anything about Palmiero, but Bonds has always been regarded as an arrogant, self-centered guy, so his 'alleged' doping is not surprising. From what I've read, people pretty much think of Landis as a humble and forthright guy, that's why I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it doesn't look good for him.

    As more and more sophisticated drugs evolve, does the likelihood of false positives increase or decrease?

    Yeah, I agree regarding hoping Landis is exaggerated -- typo: meant exonerated -- and kind of hoping Bonds gets nailed. But ultimately, that may just mean that Landis cares more about, or pays more attention to, PR. Being more like Raffy than Barry may ultimately not be much to brag about.
    No idea on the science question, which is a good one.
     
  8. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    I, too, am rapidly becoming disgusted with the whole cycling world. Is the doping (etc.) so rampant that there are no "clean" champions? What amazes me is Landis' insistence in his innocence. Is he so certain that the "B" sample will clear him? Or is he merely an incurable liar?

    Next year's Tour will go on without my interest.

    Cycling has a long history of doping. Riders literally plea to the camera in tears emphatically stating their innocence, only to later admit to wrongdoing. I don't believe, or disbelieve anything anymore. I just don't care.

    Landis has stated that his B sample will not clear him; in other words, he expects the same results. It sounds as though he's going to try to clear his name in the appeal, which will take months and months. No matter the result of the proceedings, his performance has been marred. Nobody will ever know. My cycling friends have tried to persuade me for years that the entire peloton is doping, but I never believed it, until now.
     
  9. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    I heard someone last night say that steroids (from which one would expect the high testosterone levels) would have absolutely no effect on a short-term basis. So if Landis "creamed" or "cleared" or whatever it is they do with the stuff on the night after he bonked in the mountains, he'd realize no physical impact the next day (when he regained 8 minutes of time on the leader).

    I simply don't get it.
     
  10. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    Scientists disagree about testosterone use. Some claim it would have had no effect. Others tout the healing/recovery powers of testosterone. The stages these guys ride on a daily basis in the tour are astounding. Those that think he was using testosterone think he (and most other riders) use it on a daily basis to speed recovery after each stage. They think that something screwy happened after stage 16, either phsyiologically or botched the dosage, and after 17, he got nailed for it.
     
  11. Quirk

    Quirk Senior member

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    What's the main beef with doping? If it's just a matter of making sure everyone operates by the same rules, that makes sense, but maybe it would make more sense to just eliminate the rule. It would be fairer, actually, because the current system is so labor intensive and favors the athletes who can cheat the best.

    Or on the other hand is the main beef is that doping somehow fundamentally invalidates the whole nature of competition? This argument I don't quite understand because I'm not convinced that 'doping' is really any different from athletes using high-tech equipment, or vitamins, or expertly designed nutritional regimens, or state-of-the-art weight-training programs.
     
  12. Saucemaster

    Saucemaster Senior member

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    I had that argument with someone during the Congressional hearings into steroids in baseball, actually. If people want their sports to remain completely "natural", then okay. But I'm not really sure what "natural" is supposed to mean, and I don't see how creatine would be natural where steroids wouldn't be, for instance. Or for that matter, protein powder. At any rate, I argued (not sure I believe it, but it was fun to play devil's advocate) that the only supplements that should be illegal within the game are those that are *so* effective that they actually "break" the game. I.e. if they gave someone such an advantage that the rules of the game became insufficient to make the game competitive. After all, it would make the game more fun to watch!
     
  13. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    Leave it to The Onion to bring this whole thing home:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Bradford

    Bradford Senior member

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    Uh oh - B sample tested positive for high testosterone as well. Landis is out as champ, fired by his team and will likely be suspended from cycling.

    If you're going to do it, at least come up with a decent excuse. Everyone knows that alcohol lowers testosterone and increases estrogen - that's why champion bodybuilders don't drink leading up to competitions. And the "dehydration" theory - give me a break.
     
  15. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

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    meh, whatever. give me a good head-butting cyclist, then i'll watch the sport.
     
  16. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    Uh oh - B sample tested positive for high testosterone as well. Landis is out as champ, fired by his team and will likely be suspended from cycling.

    If you're going to do it, at least come up with a decent excuse. Everyone knows that alcohol lowers testosterone and increases estrogen - that's why champion bodybuilders don't drink leading up to competitions. And the "dehydration" theory - give me a break.


    but everyone else is doping too! does the second place guy deserve to be the champion because he's better at not getting caught?
     
  17. Dakota rube

    Dakota rube Senior member

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    but everyone else is doping too! does the second place guy deserve to be the champion because he's better at not getting caught?
    Perhaps this is what cycling has come to. [​IMG]
     
  18. Luc-Emmanuel

    Luc-Emmanuel Senior member

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    This will be remembered as the stupidest Tour de France in history. First they removed all the, allegedly blood doped, best cyclers (Basso, Ulrich...). Then, most of the audience was chuncked out by the world cup with france going to the final. Last, the winner is doped, and the second will won the race because he was able to get away with a 30 minutes lead in a routine stage where nobody payed attention to him or considered him a threat after his poor performance during the pyrenean stages. Brilliant.

    !luc
     
  19. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    but everyone else is doping too! does the second place guy deserve to be the champion because he's better at not getting caught?

    Number two apparently just got caught. What now?
     

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