TyCooN's Official Boxing Thread

[RFX45]

The explanation doesn't bother me but the way you put it is exactly why you have swayed everyone from posting in this thread. It's practically you and Ter that has populated this thread because you specifically could not see Floyd as other than perfect. There are as many explanation on why Floyd didn't want the fight to happen either but you neglect to post that, didn't you? You only believe the media that was pro Floyd.

Ter put it clearly and that post up there doesn't feel biased at all. Yours on the other hand to go along with the other posts you have made against Pac and how you have sucked up Floyds dick is pretty damn obvious.

Look I clearly said Floyd will dance around Pac and it should be an easy win unless it gets stolen from him by the judges so obviously I am far from a Pac-stan. I am clearly picking Floyd to win and easily at that but I am not putting down Pac or Floyd and just trying to stay neutral unlike you obviously.

And the media has clearly shown Pac in a negative light too from being too damn religious to being a bad congressman to his problems with the taxman in the Philippines. You cant blame them though if they also show him in a good light because he is a nice and humble guy while Floyd is the exact opposite who beats on women and even shows the women around him doing weed a week before a fight and even though he didn't take a hit, why even bother with it? Floyd relinquishes in being the villain and that is how he makes him money, people pay to see him lose and really that is great strategy and I applaud him for that but again you can't even be mad at the media if dude wants to project that. Though I don't support it when he goes to far like throwing another mans countries flag and such. But that is exactly how Floyd is and you can tell because dude is all nice and very businessman-like in post-fight interviews unlike Broner who is just a genuine dick even after he has won.

No one is even arguing about Pac current fights, it was also a big mistake to resign with Top Rank for 6 more fights (?) because his opponents are plucked from Top Ranks stable which is pretty damn thin these days.

But hey, keep peddling that Floyd is perfect and that it was all Pacs fault that other fights didn't happen and there was no other side to that coin.

 

[Neo_Version 7]

Obviously, we are not privy to see how these guys act 24/7 behind closed doors but based on Floyd's criminal charges alone, he seems like a genuine dick to me. I understand his bad guy persona is a business strategy. I'm also sure neither ter nor tycoon condone his countless criminal convictions (hopefully) and focus solely on his boxing. I guess it's just easier for some people to disassociate an athlete's personal life from his in-ring talent.

 

[ter1413]

First....I am not even a PBF fan like that.

However, I happen to think that he is the best boxer/fighter on our generation BY FAR. When asked if he will beat XYZ, my answer will always be yes, because that is what I think. He will always be the superior fighter vs anyone he faces IMO. And he is the most skillful. I am a fight fan. So I respect that 100%.

Same thing with Tyson in his prime(though I did think that Michael Spinks would beat him.) I respected him, but was not really a fan like that.

That doesn't mean that I don't think that he(PBF) is other than perfect. But I don't count what fighters do outside the ring when rating/ranking them inside the ring. I can't think of where in this thread that I mentioned anything about Manny's tax or political issues.

I don't even really get into why the fight wasn't made in the past. There is a difference btwn posting links to articles vs giving my opinion. This is a boxing thread.....so I post boxing articles/links.

I NEVER thought Manny was all that he was cracked up to be. I just never did. How could you lose 2 of your last 9......and people(mostly his fans) still consider him #2 PFP...and some consider him #1? Riddle me that?

I was never a HUGE Ali, Tyson, Ray Leonard, Evander, De La Hoya, etc. fan either. Did I respect them? Of course. Was Tyson the most exciting draw in boxing and did I watch each and every fight? Yep. At the time, would I have said(on SF) that Tyson is the greatest heavyweight of that generation and that no one could touch him(Kevin Rooney days)? Yep.

Would you have seen that as me feeling that Tyson was "perfect" and had no flaws outside of the ring also?

(FYI...my 3 favorite fighters of all time happen to be Hagler, Macho Camacho and Pernell Whitaker......they also all happen to be southpaws.)

 

[LawrenceMD]



If you want pure biased on manny like he's perfect, just turn on your television to a mainstream sports channel.

fact of the matter is someone wanted to know where manny 'fucked up'. It's most unfortunate that the explanation bothers you.

so you're angry at manny or the media? or both?

I understand though.. manny got into politics makes him look like a saint to the US/world media, but any educated filipino knows that it was his way of staying rich after retiring from boxing. politicians in the philippines are basically mini-coporation-army-mafia-empires and is probably the most lucrative profession if you can handle the inherent danger.

the US media does gloss over manny's indiscretions, while really going after floyd for anything he does. its thinly veiled racism/bigotry on the media/publics side when it comes to the way the public will instantly jump on PBF negatively if there's any reason to do so.

but lets not gloss over that floyd has been a huge dick, racist, and a convicted woman beater. jesus the guy even went to jail for it and was lucky to not get any real time for it. and when he realized that being a demonized heel was profitable he ramped up his schtick to WWE Wrestling Heel levels to profit from it.

I suspect it was Bob Arum trying to leverage PBF back in the day (using the fact that he was freshly un-retired, then the fact that he was about to go to jail) to squeeze more money out of the negotiations. Its a slimy tactic from a slimy promoter, but still if you can leverage someone by coming at them during times of weakness Arum is going to do it.

some might fault Manny for sticking with Bob Arum, but just like Floyds rumored illiteracy, you have to realize that Manny came from 3rd world poverty, which is on a whole different level than poverty here in the USA, manny is polished now, but he stopped going to school at 14. Its kind of a Yaseil Puig situation, manny's instant rise from abject 3rd world poverty, right to mega-fame-riches means he's already won.

I'm just glad the fight is going to happen. If you want to look and ignore the nuances behind both fighters backstories its fine, for me it makes it all the more interesting.

 

[ter1413]



Obviously, we are not privy to see how these guys act 24/7 behind closed doors but based on Floyd's criminal charges alone, he seems like a genuine dick to me. I understand his bad guy persona is a business strategy. [COLOR=FF00AA]I'm also sure neither ter nor tycoon condone his countless criminal convictions (hopefully) and focus solely on his boxing. I guess it's just easier for some people to disassociate an athlete's personal life from his in-ring talent.[/COLOR]

Exactly. Of course I don't condone the criminal acts.

I am counting just his in-ring skills. There are so many good to great fighters with criminal pasts. Tyson. Hopkins. Tapia. Kirkland. Prince Naseem. Diego Corrales. Sonny Liston. Pernell Whitaker. Etc.

And there are also many good to great fighters that are ****** people...but just haven't been caught by the law.

What sport doesn't have people who have had issues with the law? What sport?

Because PBF happens to be the BEST fighter, many focus on that(legal issues) as a knock. Ok.
Because PBF flashes his cars, $$, jewels, etc, many focus on that as a knock. Ok.

I could care less about that and about Manny's political/tax issues. I am talking IN THE RING. Period.

 

[RFX45]

To be fair in that 7-2 record, one was stolen with that Bradley fight.

Manny has always had problems with Marquez (not saying that as an excuse, he just doesn't match up well with him and their record against each other could easily be flipped) and that is why I think Floyd will mop the floor with Pac. He may not knock Pac out like Marquez did but Floyd will hit him as easily as he did with Canelo.


As for ranking them pound for pound, it's hard because people will have their own opinions but to be fair even Ring Magazine has Pac at 3rd best P4P just behind FLoyd (1) and Klitschko (2) and ESPN has Pac second for Welterweights just behind Floyd so that says something when analysts and the boxing world/aficionados (not just casual fans) still rank the two of them as one of the best.

I am not even going to argue what Pac has done in the boxing world and if he is an elite or if he was all-he-was-cracked-up-to-be but he is still easily up there and it's hard to argue otherwise until other up and coming talents (Thurman, Garcia, Crawford, etc...) comes out to shine.

 

[RFX45]



Exactly. Of course I don't condone the criminal acts.

I am counting just his in-ring skills. There are so many good to great fighters with criminal pasts. Tyson. Hopkins. Tapia. Kirkland. Prince Naseem. Diego Corrales. Sonny Liston. Pernell Whitaker. Etc.

And there are also many good to great fighters that are ****** people...but just haven't been caught by the law.

What sport doesn't have people who have had issues with the law? What sport?

Because PBF happens to be the BEST fighter, many focus on that(legal issues) as a knock. Ok.
Because PBF flashes his cars, $$, jewels, etc, many focus on that as a knock. Ok.

I could care less about that and about Manny's political/tax issues. I am talking IN THE RING. Period.

Again I am not saying you're biased, analysis and why Manny is good or bad is fine and makes for good discussion but Tycoon has hated Manny ever since a fight has been linked to Floyd. Dude constantly calls him Emanuela, posts all the negative things to happen to Pac while any negative press on Floyd has been left out. Dude does nothing but slander Pac especially when relating to Floyd as if Floyd had absolutely nothing to do with the other fights not happening. He just sees reports of Floyd wanting the drug test and Manny saying no but does not believe reports where Floyd wouldn't offer Pac a 50/50 split back then. Or that the fact that Pac agreed to testing except for the day of the fight (he would test afterwards) but no he only sees the report that Floyd agreed to no testing up to 14 days before. No reports of Floyds bad history/bad blood with Arum and Top Rank?

I am not saying one is correct and the other is just wrong but there are two sides to the coin and you can't say Floyd did everything he could to get the other fights to happen. Both man are at fault as far I see it.


If we could just keep it a bit less biased and just discuss boxing only and not always try to throw shade or jab at someone then this thread would be enjoyable. I mean you can read the first few pages of this thread and just see how much of a Money-stan someone is and those type of posts are pretty much the reason this thread has been dead. It was actually lively and a good thread before it reached that point.

 

[ter1413]

Stolen or not, Manny didn't beat him convincingly enough to get the "W." As someone in the PFP discussion, you should not leave any room for error. And I just looked at the scores. One of the most respected judges in boxing, Duane Ford had it for Bradley.

I actually didn't see that fight live. I think I saw it the following week. I am just bored looking at Tim Bradley fights. Like I said, I didn't see it live and was not really interested in the fight at all(the replay), so I have no recollection of who actually won.

I do remember the "uproar" re Pac got jobbed.
But that's not on anyone but him.

7-2(8-1) is still not 7-0.
5 career loses and 2 draws isn't an undefeated/un-tied record.

Just stating the facts. Bringing nothing re their outside lives into this discussion.

(I posted this ^^ before your last post.)

 

[ter1413]



Again I am not saying you're biased, analysis and why Manny is good or bad is fine and makes for good discussion but Tycoon has hated Manny ever since a fight has been linked to Floyd. Dude [COLOR=FF00AA]constantly calls him Emanuela, [/COLOR]posts all the negative things to happen to Pac while any negative press on Floyd has been left out. Dude does nothing but slander Pac especially when relating to Floyd as if Floyd had absolutely nothing to do with the other fights not happening. He just sees reports of Floyd wanting the drug test and Manny saying no but does not believe reports where Floyd wouldn't offer Pac a 50/50 split back then. Or that the fact that Pac agreed to testing except for the day of the fight (he would test afterwards) but no he only sees the report that Floyd agreed to no testing up to 14 days before. No reports of Floyds bad history/bad blood with Arum and Top Rank?

I am not saying one is correct and the other is just wrong but there are two sides to the coin and you can't say Floyd did everything he could to get the other fights to happen. Both man are at fault as far I see it.


If we could just keep it a bit less biased and just discuss boxing only and not always try to throw shade or jab at someone then this thread would be enjoyable. I mean you can read the first few pages of this thread and just see how much of a Money-stan someone is and those type of posts are pretty much the reason this thread has been dead. It was actually lively and a good thread before it reached that point.

I actually think that's funny ^^^. And this is SF!

Hey...Tycoon is a 100% PBF fan. What do you expect? I actually think that it is funny that he gives out to Pac fans who arbitrarily think that Manny would/will KO Floyd....based on no/what facts? Why? Because Manny won by TKO over Cotto years ago? PBF dominated Cotto. Also, PBF has never been KO'd. So you see how Manny's fans are? They just don;t like PBF and are just as skewed towards their guy.

And someone famous once said...."It ain't talking **** if you back it up!"

 

[RFX45]

Well I can also throw a lot of respected judges (a lot more probably if I really look at it) that has it for Pac so that point is moot. It is an L in Pacs record at the end of the day but it was still stolen from him, hell many are calling it one of the biggest robberies in boxing but I don't want to dwell on that.

I get that you're stating the facts but you are dwelling on it like that affected Pacs career when most believes he won that fight, it was Marquez's KO that was the biggest negative in his career.

I mean at the end of the day, the boxers get the W and L but you have to judge the fights for yourself. As I stated before, Canelo got one judge to go win a card against Money. That is how insane judging is. Mauricio Herrera got robbed in his last two fights against Garcia and Benavidez, where even Benvidez' dad (or trainer?) admitted to Herrera that they lost that fight and Herrera got robbed. That fight was actually so bad for Garcia that it was more detriment to Garcias career that he was forced to cherry pick his next fight and fans (many actual boxing fans) started to boo him.


And no one is arguing Pacs record, it is obviously not a perfect but that isn't the only factor in determining a p4p. Wilder is also undefeated and has KOd all his opponent til his championship match but you aren't going to rank him that much higher because he has been in the ring with a bunch of scrubs. Defeats doesn't always show what the fighter can do and how good they are, I mean Lomachenko is 3-1 and dude is genuinely good and talented and being ranked up there with the featherweights.

 

[ter1413]



Well I can also throw a lot of respected judges (a lot more probably if I really look at it) that has it for Pac so that point is moot. It is an L in Pacs record at the end of the day but it was still stolen from him, hell many are calling it one of the biggest robberies in boxing but I don't want to dwell on that.

I get that you're stating the facts but you are dwelling on it like that affected Pacs career when most believes he won that fight, it was Marquez's KO that was the biggest negative in his career.

I mean at the end of the day, the boxers get the W and L but you have to judge the fights for yourself. As I stated before, [COLOR=FF00AA]Canelo got one judge to go win a card against Money.[/COLOR] That is how insane judging is. Mauricio Herrera got robbed in his last two fights against Garcia and Benavidez, where even Benvidez' dad (or trainer?) admitted to Herrera that they lost that fight and Herrera got robbed. That fight was actually so bad for Garcia that it was more detriment to Garcias career that he was forced to cherry pick his next fight and fans (many actual boxing fans) started to boo him.


And no one is arguing Pacs record, it is obviously not a perfect but that isn't the only factor in determining a p4p. Wilder is also undefeated and has KOd all his opponent til his championship match but you aren't going to rank him that much higher because he has been in the ring with a bunch of scrubs. Defeats doesn't always show what the fighter can do and how good they are, I mean Lomachenko is 3-1 and dude is genuinely good and talented and being ranked up there with the featherweights.

Just to be accurate, the 1 judge called it a draw.

Agree that W/L isn't the only factor.

 

[RFX45]



I actually think that's funny ^^^. And this is SF!

Hey...Tycoon is a 100% PBF fan. What do you expect? I actually think that it is funny that he gives out to Pac fans who arbitrarily think that Manny would/will KO Floyd....based on no/what facts? hy? Because Manny won by TKO over Cotto years ago? PBF dominated Cotto. Also, PBF has never been KO'd. So you see how Manny's fans are? They just don;t like PBF and are just as skewed towards their guy.

And someone famous once said...."It ain't talking **** if you back it up!"

Well fans like that are the ones who ruins everything including this thread. Both sides have their fans (hardcore fans) but only one ultimately biased fan posts in this thread. I don't even see anyone here who is overly a Pac-stan, not even remotely close to Tycoons love for Floyd. I get it, he can blow his steam if someone sucks as hard as he does for Pac but there's no one in here like that, his posts are unprovoked and seems to have an agenda on Pac in here against no one. Again it has made this thread a deserted wasteland because of it.

It's been a bit more tolerable to post and read here for news and articles and some analysis here and there but then this match is made and dude goes on again on a rant to trash Pac which is again unprovoked. Dude simply asked why Pac is such and dude couldn't word it better than to just simply show his hate for Pac and provide absolutely nothing from the other side.


But whatever...

 

[RFX45]



Just to be accurate, the 1 judge called it a draw.

Agree that W/L isn't the only factor.

Was it a draw? My mistake. It was still an insane judge to think Canelo got that close in that fight.

 

[ter1413]

Speaking of Canelo...he is going against a big puncher in Kirland the week after the PBF vs Manny fight.
The quality of Kirkland's W's are ****. But still looking forward to seeing that one.

 

[RFX45]

I heard Kirklands way overweight though. He better be on the gym 24/7. He should be happy the fight got pushed another week.

I thought the Kirkland v Tapia match was very good, Kirkland seemed outmatched in the first round or two (iirc) and then Kirkland made a comeback for a brutal KO (got to watch it again).

Kirkland has good power but I think Canelo just can't be careless and he'd pull off a win. Really sucks that Cotto had to wait for Floyd so his fight with Canelo didn't happen. Hopefully that fight happens in the fall.