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TyCooN's Official Boxing Thread

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by TyCooN, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    To be fair in that 7-2 record, one was stolen with that Bradley fight.

    Manny has always had problems with Marquez (not saying that as an excuse, he just doesn't match up well with him and their record against each other could easily be flipped) and that is why I think Floyd will mop the floor with Pac. He may not knock Pac out like Marquez did but Floyd will hit him as easily as he did with Canelo.


    As for ranking them pound for pound, it's hard because people will have their own opinions but to be fair even Ring Magazine has Pac at 3rd best P4P just behind FLoyd (1) and Klitschko (2) and ESPN has Pac second for Welterweights just behind Floyd so that says something when analysts and the boxing world/aficionados (not just casual fans) still rank the two of them as one of the best.

    I am not even going to argue what Pac has done in the boxing world and if he is an elite or if he was all-he-was-cracked-up-to-be but he is still easily up there and it's hard to argue otherwise until other up and coming talents (Thurman, Garcia, Crawford, etc...) comes out to shine.
     
  2. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Again I am not saying you're biased, analysis and why Manny is good or bad is fine and makes for good discussion but Tycoon has hated Manny ever since a fight has been linked to Floyd. Dude constantly calls him Emanuela, posts all the negative things to happen to Pac while any negative press on Floyd has been left out. Dude does nothing but slander Pac especially when relating to Floyd as if Floyd had absolutely nothing to do with the other fights not happening. He just sees reports of Floyd wanting the drug test and Manny saying no but does not believe reports where Floyd wouldn't offer Pac a 50/50 split back then. Or that the fact that Pac agreed to testing except for the day of the fight (he would test afterwards) but no he only sees the report that Floyd agreed to no testing up to 14 days before. No reports of Floyds bad history/bad blood with Arum and Top Rank?

    I am not saying one is correct and the other is just wrong but there are two sides to the coin and you can't say Floyd did everything he could to get the other fights to happen. Both man are at fault as far I see it.


    If we could just keep it a bit less biased and just discuss boxing only and not always try to throw shade or jab at someone then this thread would be enjoyable. I mean you can read the first few pages of this thread and just see how much of a Money-stan someone is and those type of posts are pretty much the reason this thread has been dead. It was actually lively and a good thread before it reached that point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  3. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    Stolen or not, Manny didn't beat him convincingly enough to get the "W." As someone in the PFP discussion, you should not leave any room for error. And I just looked at the scores. One of the most respected judges in boxing, Duane Ford had it for Bradley.

    I actually didn't see that fight live. I think I saw it the following week. I am just bored looking at Tim Bradley fights. Like I said, I didn't see it live and was not really interested in the fight at all(the replay), so I have no recollection of who actually won.

    I do remember the "uproar" re Pac got jobbed.
    But that's not on anyone but him.

    7-2(8-1) is still not 7-0.
    5 career loses and 2 draws isn't an undefeated/un-tied record.

    Just stating the facts. Bringing nothing re their outside lives into this discussion.

    (I posted this ^^ before your last post.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  4. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    I actually think that's funny ^^^. And this is SF!

    Hey...Tycoon is a 100% PBF fan. What do you expect? I actually think that it is funny that he gives out to Pac fans who arbitrarily think that Manny would/will KO Floyd....based on no/what facts? Why? Because Manny won by TKO over Cotto years ago? PBF dominated Cotto. Also, PBF has never been KO'd. So you see how Manny's fans are? They just don;t like PBF and are just as skewed towards their guy.

    And someone famous once said...."It ain't talking shit if you back it up!"
     
  5. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Well I can also throw a lot of respected judges (a lot more probably if I really look at it) that has it for Pac so that point is moot. It is an L in Pacs record at the end of the day but it was still stolen from him, hell many are calling it one of the biggest robberies in boxing but I don't want to dwell on that.

    I get that you're stating the facts but you are dwelling on it like that affected Pacs career when most believes he won that fight, it was Marquez's KO that was the biggest negative in his career.

    I mean at the end of the day, the boxers get the W and L but you have to judge the fights for yourself. As I stated before, Canelo got one judge to go win a card against Money. That is how insane judging is. Mauricio Herrera got robbed in his last two fights against Garcia and Benavidez, where even Benvidez' dad (or trainer?) admitted to Herrera that they lost that fight and Herrera got robbed. That fight was actually so bad for Garcia that it was more detriment to Garcias career that he was forced to cherry pick his next fight and fans (many actual boxing fans) started to boo him.


    And no one is arguing Pacs record, it is obviously not a perfect :lol: but that isn't the only factor in determining a p4p. Wilder is also undefeated and has KOd all his opponent til his championship match but you aren't going to rank him that much higher because he has been in the ring with a bunch of scrubs. Defeats doesn't always show what the fighter can do and how good they are, I mean Lomachenko is 3-1 and dude is genuinely good and talented and being ranked up there with the featherweights.
     
  6. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    Just to be accurate, the 1 judge called it a draw.

    Agree that W/L isn't the only factor.
     
  7. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Well fans like that are the ones who ruins everything including this thread. Both sides have their fans (hardcore fans) but only one ultimately biased fan posts in this thread. I don't even see anyone here who is overly a Pac-stan, not even remotely close to Tycoons love for Floyd. I get it, he can blow his steam if someone sucks as hard as he does for Pac but there's no one in here like that, his posts are unprovoked and seems to have an agenda on Pac in here against no one. :lol: Again it has made this thread a deserted wasteland because of it.

    It's been a bit more tolerable to post and read here for news and articles and some analysis here and there but then this match is made and dude goes on again on a rant to trash Pac which is again unprovoked. Dude simply asked why Pac is such and dude couldn't word it better than to just simply show his hate for Pac and provide absolutely nothing from the other side.


    But whatever...
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  8. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Was it a draw? My mistake. It was still an insane judge to think Canelo got that close in that fight.
     
  9. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    Speaking of Canelo...he is going against a big puncher in Kirland the week after the PBF vs Manny fight.
    The quality of Kirkland's W's are shit. But still looking forward to seeing that one.
     
  10. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    I heard Kirklands way overweight though. He better be on the gym 24/7. He should be happy the fight got pushed another week. :lol:

    I thought the Kirkland v Tapia match was very good, Kirkland seemed outmatched in the first round or two (iirc) and then Kirkland made a comeback for a brutal KO (got to watch it again).

    Kirkland has good power but I think Canelo just can't be careless and he'd pull off a win. Really sucks that Cotto had to wait for Floyd so his fight with Canelo didn't happen. Hopefully that fight happens in the fall.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  11. TyCooN

    TyCooN Senior member

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    You want to know why. Because the man requesting information specifically asked how did manny fuck up.

    You have a long winded response begging me to explain where Floyd fucked up, despite ianGP not requesting it. Your post is fueled by a need to retaliate, which suggests a heavy emotional involvement towards manny.

    Then you mention how manny was robbed but conveniently make no mention of the major robbery he pulled over Marquez.

    Your actions lead me to believe you're just as biased despite proclaiming otherwise. Only difference is unlike me, you struggle to stomach being biased. Being perceived as neutral is of importance to you. To me it has little value.

    It seems your perception of me is heavily coloring your thoughts. Ter's post was harsher than mines.

    If you read it closely, he puts down manny's opposition in recent years. Fighters are primarily valued based off who they beat and their skills.

    Something tells me if I analyzed manny's recent opposition like ter did, you would be crying and not praising me.
    If sounding biased is the price of accuracy, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

    Excess neutrality can result in horribly inaccurate predictions. Some of the best boxing analyst appear terribly biased. Then after the fight happens people shut up in awe at how accurate they are.

    If I think someone will win, I'll say it straight to your face. I don't dilute my predictions by sugar coating it for the sake of a neutral appearance. Fuck that

    Yes, small time media outlets that only a handful of guys read.

    Larger media platforms stay sucking that foo off. It only puts shit into equilibrium when outspoken Floyd fans voice up. You're so accustomed to people taking it easy on manny that it angers you when someone is harsh, even if what they're stating is accurate.

    If we took morality into consideration when it comes to supporting boxers, we'd limited to a selection that EXCLUDES THE VERY BEST.

    Sugar Ray Robinson, GREATEST BOXER OF ALL TIME = Beat his wife so hard she suffered at least one miscarriage

    Muhammad Ali, the athlete who gets his dick sucked by 99% of the population = Smacked his wife or gf because she wouldn't wear what he told her to

    Floyd = you're already familiar with him breaking the law

    Sugar Ray Leonard = also beat his wife

    Manny Pacquiao = had a child out of wedlock with a prostitute while he was married. Denies all responsibility and is a deadbeat father to the kid

    Joe Louis, considered an American hero = Beat his woman for disobeying him

    etc

    Give me a list of your top 10 favorite fighters, and there's bound to be at least one 'bad person'.

    If you want my opinion, I prefer the guys who openly break the 'rules'. Simply put a Floyd Mayweather, Mike Tyson, Jack Johnson, etc is more honest about who they are.

    Some people prefer a sugar coated lie and can stomach guys like manny, Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar de La Hoya, etc. Personally, that's not for me.

    I dislike guys who put on a saint act when they have a fair share of dirt themselves. That's hypocritical and fake. It's like the priest who portrays himself to be a righteous ol holy one despite secretly jerking little boys off.

    Obviously it angers me that manny shied away from fighting Floyd until now when he's in dire need of a huge payday due to tax issues. Floyd also fucked up in the past when he went on vacation, but he has fought the better opposition in recent years.

    I'm indifferent towards how horrible these guys might be as people. It's not like I know them personally and deal with em on a day to day basis.

    As for the media, I understand why they blow manny and encourage casual fans to do so also. People love an underdog story. Personally, being perceived as an underdog in alone by itself doesn't garner my sympathy. No man chooses to have disadvantaged circumstances.

    The media is strange. Politicians are known for misleading people by telling them what they want to hear. Somehow, manny is exempt from this and viewed as a completely honest guy.

    Last but not least HBO was full of shit and tried to fool the public into believing that manny didn't get his ass kicked by Marquez the 3rd time around.

    That's all for today. I want to minimize the long posts
     
  12. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Ain't nobody mad :lol: you just make the thread unreadable once the subject becomes Manny vs Floyd while staying civil for the most part on other matter relating to boxing that made the thread fun in the beginning.


    edit: i'll actually omit the rest of the post and just leave this one here



    I can go on deeper and dissect that post further but I'll just quote this one:



    See that last several sentence you posted are clear and concise and insightful and not biased at all. You are capable of just simply posting like that so why not keep it up instead of just bashing a particular individual every chance you get? And believe me, I will be on you the same way if the coin was flipped and you were defending Manny and bashing Floyd. I've done it in the NBA thread, Comic Book Movie thread, Watch Thread, etc...

    That last quote is exactly what this thread needs and could benefit from and actually bring people to come and enjoy talking about boxing without feeling like they are just going to get dumped on when they say something good about Manny or bad about Floyd.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  13. TyCooN

    TyCooN Senior member

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    Thank you for taking the time to be clarified about my stance.
     
  14. gladhands

    gladhands Senior member

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    Anyone planning on going to the fight? I've booked that weekend and budgeted a few grand for tickets. I have a feeling I'll end up watching on closed circuit because they'll be out of my price range,
     
  15. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    I plan on being in Vegas.
    Tickets will be near IMPOSSIBLE to get for the average joe unless you get lucky. I also plan to enjoy the atmosphere and watch it somewhere not crazy so that I can really take it in. Afterwards, I can go out and enjoy Vegas.
     
  16. gladhands

    gladhands Senior member

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    I've seen rumors that only 1000 ticks are being made available to the general public, but that doesn't jibe with the "no comps for celebs or whales" talk coming from Arum. Right now there is no official release date or pricing info, although there are reports that face value will be 1000-5000 seats in the stands, with floor seats going for 100k, and 250k ringside.
     
  17. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    Yep. I saw some of that also.

    The thing is that I have been to fights at MSG and Atlantic City before. I usually had pretty good seats(Trinidad vs Mayorga were $700/each at MSG and we had very good seats on the floor.) I don't know if I want to be up high to watch a fight...even one as monumental as this one.

    I would rather watch it somewhere and then head out and hang out. I figure the fight will be over by 10pm Vegas time so loads of time to take in the atmosphere.

    But it will also depend on what my 2 friends want to do....
     
  18. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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  19. ianGP

    ianGP Senior member

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    anyone got a credit card with concierge service to try and get it through them?

    I have an AMEX plat for personal and business as well as JP Morgan's concierge services... I'll probably shoot them an e-mail this weekend for an inquiry.

    Just from forum-talks about tickets, they might actually have to go through brokers.
     

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