Two RLPL pants: which one is fake?

[Chrenetique]

I recently bought two RLPL pants on eBay. There's a pair of khakis (bought NWOT), and a pair of silk dress pants (bought mint).

Worriedly, I noticed the labels are not the same on both pants. Three things are different:

1) the stitching of the labels,
2) the "Ralph Lauren" brand name isn't written in the exact same font,
3) the size (32) is on the label for my khakis, and under the label for my silk pants.

Hence, one of them is fake; or both are fake; or both are legit but done differently (are khakis and dress pants made by different makers? did the labels change at some point in history?).

Please watch carefully the pictures and help me to determine if there's a counterfeit. I can provide pictures of the pants, but I don't know which details should be photographed. Anyway, thanks in advance.

(Two pictures on the left = khakis. Two pictures on the right = silk pants.)

 

[TimelesStyle]

The "Ralph Lauren" label on the silk pair looks cheap, and a little off, but what do I know. Could just be different manufacturers/years.

 

[Harold falcon]

I would wager money the dress pants are real, that matches what I have.

I don't know about the khakis as I don't own any RLPL khakis. Sorry.

 

[Septavius]

I have RLPL pants that display the size in either of the two ways depicted in your photos, and also a third way, where the tags project out (kind of like the 32 in the far right picture, but the whole tag does that and in a more rectangular shape). These are all on wool pants. FWIW, my pants came from eBay too, but I don't have any reason to believe they're fakes.

 

[Kenneth Cole Haan]

Originally Posted by Septavius

I have RLPL pants that display the size in either of the two ways depicted in your photos, and also a third way, where the tags project out (kind of like the 32 in the far right picture, but the whole tag does that and in a more rectangular shape). These are all on wool pants. FWIW, my pants came from eBay too, but I don't have any reason to believe they're fakes.
I'm a n00b here, but I've bought not a few RLPL and I love the brand to death. A fake I think can be best exposed in person; if it's fake, it will (practically) never have the same quality of fabric and worksmanship as the real, and be fairly easy to spot once you have handled the real thing. The fakes are almost always lower quality because if they had to have the same quality, it would be too expensive and you would just buy the real thing. There's no way to tell based on the pictures you have, for me at least, although the right picture's label looks shady, it might just be the picture, and truthfully I wouldn't have called it out had you not said "which one is fake?". It makes me want to find the fake, even if there is none. Pretty sad there are counterfeit RLPL now, and they are not even a branded line! I guess the fake-buyers will be wearing it inside out to show off their fake status. Probably bought with money from a made-in-Szechuan Louis Vuitton monogram canvas quadruple-billfold.

 

[landshark]

I would bet that they are from different seasons, not fake, if they are good quality garments.

 

[TheWGP]

Originally Posted by landshark

I would bet that they are from different seasons, not fake, if they are good quality garments.

+1 - labels seem to match the RLPL pants I've seen.

 

[Jangofett]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Cole Haan

I'm a n00b here, but I've bought not a few RLPL and I love the brand to death. A fake I think can be best exposed in person; if it's fake, it will (practically) never have the same quality of fabric and worksmanship as the real, and be fairly easy to spot once you have handled the real thing. The fakes are almost always lower quality because if they had to have the same quality, it would be too expensive and you would just buy the real thing.

There's no way to tell based on the pictures you have, for me at least, although the right picture's label looks shady, it might just be the picture, and truthfully I wouldn't have called it out had you not said "which one is fake?". It makes me want to find the fake, even if there is none.

Pretty sad there are counterfeit RLPL now, and they are not even a branded line! I guess the fake-buyers will be wearing it inside out to show off their fake status. Probably bought with money from a made-in-Szechuan Louis Vuitton monogram canvas quadruple-billfold.

Not true not true!

Luxury items like branded clothes are the most counterfeited items in the world.

Why? Because that branded RLPL wool pants at 500 USD can be easily counterfeited at 20 USD.
If you want a better quality fake, with real top notch wool, it can be done and sold to you at less than USD 100, which is still enough for the counterfeiters to make a big profit, instead of selling a no name wool pants for like 70 USD.

Hence, where the luxury brands keep on jacking up the prices, without a corresponding increase in quality of the product, it becomes more profitable for the counterfeiters to make fakes.

Case in point is your LV example.

One can get a cheap fake LV wallet imported from China.
You pay a bit more, you get a genuine leather fake LV wallet, which feels good to the touch.
They even have Grade AAA fakes which uses genuine high quality leather, which are costly for fakes but people still buy them because they are cheaper than the real thing.

I bet if the counterfeiters are inclined, they can make a fake LV wallet which looks and feels like the genuine deal and it would still be cheaper than buying the genuine deal from LV. After all, LV uses normal leather and stitch it normally. You dont think 'luxury' and 'exclusivity' are more than just catch phrases, do you?

This is even easier to do when you are talking about normal cotton, wool, linen etc the brands use to make their branded stuff. Just buy a real thing, deconstruct it, use a computer to scan and make fake labels and make a 10 cents Prada, Hermes, LV label and sew it on and voila! You got yourself a high quality fake.

 

[Liquidus]

Sign me up!

 

[mainy]

they are both real, no worries

 

[Chrenetique]

Thanks for your answers.

Actually, the silk dress pants (those with the shady label) are the best pants I've ever tried on. Comfortable as heaven, smooth silk, very flattering cut. Hard to believe they're fake.

The khakis may be legit, but I'm somewhat deceived. Their fabric is thin, wrinkles very easily, and produces some "rubbing" noise when I walk. And the cut is not very tight, some would say baggy... But the details (buttons, stitching, pockets, etc.) seem good, and you really look taller in these pants.

So, if you assert that they're both authentic, I believe you.

 

[Kenneth Cole Haan]

Originally Posted by Jangofett

I bet if the counterfeiters are inclined, they can make a fake LV wallet which looks and feels like the genuine deal and it would still be cheaper than buying the genuine deal from LV.


You have a good point, there may be many fakes that are convincing. They could be nearly identical. It may very difficult for a non-expert to tell. The problem is worse by overpriced 'luxury' brands like LV who make a market for counterfeits for the lower-income consumers who can't afford genuine.

But I wonder if it is quite as bad as you say; if the counterfeiters are inclined, so you say, but that word if strikes me as the key here. If they really wanted to make a Monogram Canvas wallet indistinguishable from the true one, they probably could, it's not rocket science, but would they? It would cost a lot and take a lot more work, and the people who buy fakes wouldn't be the best to know. They aren't selling for us, they are selling for the average shlub who wants to buy his perfect 5 girlfriend a LV purse for their anniversary so she shuts up about that diamond ring she keeps hinting at. The dude doesn't care or know from nothing.

The idea that a Hong Kong faker is ordering the same wool from the supplies of RLPL is a bit much, much less having it sewn to the same standards! They don't have the skill, nor the time, nor the will, nor the need.

If you don't believe me, look at spotting fakes by pictures alone. The ladies do it every day here:

Fake LV

Fake hermes

Fakes can be spotted for Hermes ties, see the following guides, here's one, see how convincing the fake is by the label alone (one real, one fake):

If it's just the matter of using a 'scanner', as you say, why can't the faker here do that? A bad label is a pretty obvious sign, but the counterfeitter didn't even do that right.

Another guide lists construction/fabric differences between fake and real, and you would think the counterfeiters would have adopted their techniques to match this already! But not only do they make obvious mistakes, there are other things they can't possibly match. For example, there's no way counterfeiters have the same quality of authentic Hermes silk twill.

Finish: In terms of finish, the fakes are often shiny and stiff while a genuine Hermes tie is much more subtle and matte in appearance. This low-lustre effect imparts an elegance rarely seem in other ties.

Feel: If given the chance, let your fingers do the walking and simply feel the fabric: a brand new Hermes tie will have a firm, almost stiff feel to the fabric which softens over time to a rich and supple softness. The fakes are heavy feeling while the twill on the genuine ties is lighter.

Width: A ten year old Hermes tie is 3 1/4 inches wide, a 15 year old Hermes tie can be 4 inches wide and an older tie quite narrow. Most of the Asian fakes are slightly wider than the current standard of 3 5/8 inches (trending towards narrow again...) but, as these are hand-finished, dimensions do vary slightly.

Bias: Every printed and numbered Hermes tie has the bias of the twill running in the same direction. If you are looking at the tie, and imagine the face of a watch, the twill will always run from precisely 11 to 5 (8 to 2 for the scarf ties). This is quite significant as many of the fakes have a twill pattern that is the mirror image of the correct pattern; take the time to correctly identify this attribute and become familiar with it.

Construction: The trademark feature of an Hermès tie is that it is made from only 2 pieces, cut by hand, the large side and the small side, rather than the 3 pieces generally used by competitors. A piece of "buckram" gives shape to the tie and is attached to the silk for longevity.

Lining: The interior silk lining on a standard Hermes tie is the same color as the tie background and the twill pattern will run horizontally. The raised "H" lining commonly seen on fakes is particular to certain models of Hermes ties only (Scarf, Heavy Silk Lourde and Facconnee come to mind); the correct lining for the printed twill tie is solid colored matching the primary color of the silk. The lining of Hermès ties always matches the background or base color from the front of the tie. If you see a printed tie that appears genuine, and the HHH lining is utilized, it is not the real deal.

If it were so difficult to spot fakes, explain these? I believe the fakers have existing factories and can't 'retool' to match the original because it would eat into their costs and take away their big (only) advantage over the geniune producers. So they compromise and make fakes an experienced eye and hand can out immediately.

 

[Patek]

Originally Posted by Jangofett

Not true not true!

Luxury items like branded clothes are the most counterfeited items in the world.

Why? Because that branded RLPL wool pants at 500 USD can be easily counterfeited at 20 USD.
If you want a better quality fake, with real top notch wool, it can be done and sold to you at less than USD 100, which is still enough for the counterfeiters to make a big profit, instead of selling a no name wool pants for like 70 USD.

Hence, where the luxury brands keep on jacking up the prices, without a corresponding increase in quality of the product, it becomes more profitable for the counterfeiters to make fakes.

Case in point is your LV example.

One can get a cheap fake LV wallet imported from China.
You pay a bit more, you get a genuine leather fake LV wallet, which feels good to the touch.
They even have Grade AAA fakes which uses genuine high quality leather, which are costly for fakes but people still buy them because they are cheaper than the real thing.

I bet if the counterfeiters are inclined, they can make a fake LV wallet which looks and feels like the genuine deal and it would still be cheaper than buying the genuine deal from LV. After all, LV uses normal leather and stitch it normally. You dont think 'luxury' and 'exclusivity' are more than just catch phrases, do you?

This is even easier to do when you are talking about normal cotton, wool, linen etc the brands use to make their branded stuff. Just buy a real thing, deconstruct it, use a computer to scan and make fake labels and make a 10 cents Prada, Hermes, LV label and sew it on and voila! You got yourself a high quality fake.

If you want to see a first-hand eexample of this visit China.

Every single popular Japanese car has been bought by a Chinese company and deconstructed to make knockoff (down to the engine blocks and ECUs) as it is cheaper than designing and testing your own cars. They then build cars under random sounding Chinese brand names and slightly modified emblems and sell them for $5,000.

 

[Jangofett]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Cole Haan

But I wonder if it is quite as bad as you say; if the counterfeiters are inclined, so you say, but that word if strikes me as the key here. If they really wanted to make a Monogram Canvas wallet indistinguishable from the true one, they probably could, it's not rocket science, but would they? It would cost a lot and take a lot more work, and the people who buy fakes wouldn't be the best to know. They aren't selling for us, they are selling for the average shlub who wants to buy his perfect 5 girlfriend a LV purse for their anniversary so she shuts up about that diamond ring she keeps hinting at. The dude doesn't care or know from nothing.

The idea that a Hong Kong faker is ordering the same wool from the supplies of RLPL is a bit much, much less having it sewn to the same standards! They don't have the skill, nor the time, nor the will, nor the need.

I used to think like that too and I always associate fakes with cheap D & G T shirts or Commes Play T shirts, which run after 1 wash.

But the introduction of the Grade A to AAA fakes start to change my mind. I mean some of these fakes need the main offices of the brands to take alot of time to determine they are fakes, and for them to take measures like in the US dollar to determine authenticity.

Based on that, I realise the counterfeiters can do better fakes, if they want to. I mean they fake all the ladies branded handbags to branded watches to pens and they do it with real materials. I guess the issue is whether it is really worth their while (in terms of costs, profits, time etc) to do it instead of mass producting low quality fakes.

Things are also not helped by brands using China as their contract manufacturers.

Also, the concept that Hermes and LV use true artisans or nuns with the lightest of touches to create their wares are also untrue. Many Asians have 10 to 20 to 30 years doing fine leather products and I dont think the case can be made that the former have better workmanship than the latter.

So I shudder for the day the counterfeiters realise people in styleforum are willing to pay 500 to 600 USD for new John Lobbs Prestiges and start manufacturing their own Prestiges for like 50 using real (and maybe apparently low quality) leather and take orders from the folks here.

 

[Jangofett]

Oh and my personal fake story -

Bought an expensive LV wallet thing on ebay, from a seller with hundreds of positive feedback, tons of pictures and serial number etc on the wallet with a box.

On a lark, decided to spend some money to authenticate it. I was told it was a fake and I told the seller. Seller was furious but authenticator stood by its guns. I would have thought based on the look and feel, the LV wallet was 100% original. I now do not buy any LV products online.