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Tux's bowtie - what material would you opt for?

Icehawk

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I've got a one button notch lapel tuxedo coat with satin facings - would you opt to go with a satin bowtie or with a faille one? The rest of the outfit is a hidden button wing collared shirt, black velvet PA slippers, and no waist covering (this is for a wedding, bride has requested NO waist covering).


Here's the faille one:
https://secure.bowties.com/index.cfm.../0/next/10.htm

My concern with satin is having it match the lapels whereas the faille obviously would not and may offer a good contrast to the rest of the tuxedo? The pants have a grosgrain trim stripe but I may need to buy some new ones (who the F is a 29" waist?!) which would more likely have satin trimming as it's unlikely I can afford a new matching pair or lose 2" from my waist.


One last request for input - the buttons on my jacket are plain black plastic, any thoughts to replacing them with another option other than satin covered buttons? I've seen grosgrain and of course horn, MOP, etc are available.
 

TimelesStyle

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I know you don't want to hear this, but it really sounds like you need a new tux. While notch vs. peak vs. shawl is largely a matter of preference, your tux sounds too mismatched to wear (and frankly, not interesting enough to try and match new trousers to).

You can always go the Jos. Bank route, which will run you $300-450 for the whole suit depending on what model you go with. $700 will get you a Brooks Brothers' tuxedo. Macy's has their Alfani tux separates, and the whole suit comes out to less than $300. it's a two-button, peak lapel and while I don't like two button for a tux, you could do worse. They also have a Hugo Boss for $800 and while I'm no HB fan, this one actually looks pretty nice. If you have some time and good outlets/stores with sales near you, you could always do some bargain/sale hunting.

If you choose to just replace the trousers, get satin striped ones. Matching the trouser stripe and jacket facings is pretty important. As for the tie, it should match the facings. I'm assuming the bride has requested a plain black bow?

Lastly, I'd opt for a turndown collar shirt, but it sounds like that's the least of your concerns right now.

Hope you don't mind the candid thoughts on this.
 

Matt S

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Originally Posted by TimelesStyle
I know you don't want to hear this, but it really sounds like you need a new tux. While notch vs. peak vs. shawl is largely a matter of preference, your tux sounds too mismatched to wear (and frankly, not interesting enough to try and match new trousers to).

You can always go the Jos. Bank route, which will run you $300-450 for the whole suit depending on what model you go with. $700 will get you a Brooks Brothers' tuxedo. Macy's has their Alfani tux separates, and the whole suit comes out to less than $300. it's a two-button, peak lapel and while I don't like two button for a tux, you could do worse. They also have a Hugo Boss for $800 and while I'm no HB fan, this one actually looks pretty nice. If you have some time and good outlets/stores with sales near you, you could always do some bargain/sale hunting.

If you choose to just replace the trousers, get satin striped ones. Matching the trouser stripe and jacket facings is pretty important. As for the tie, it should match the facings. I'm assuming the bride has requested a plain black bow?

Lastly, I'd opt for a turndown collar shirt, but it sounds like that's the least of your concerns right now.

Hope you don't mind the candid thoughts on this.


Great advice.
 

js4design

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Originally Posted by TimelesStyle
I know you don't want to hear this, but it really sounds like you need a new tux. While notch vs. peak vs. shawl is largely a matter of preference, your tux sounds too mismatched to wear (and frankly, not interesting enough to try and match new trousers to). You can always go the Jos. Bank route, which will run you $300-450 for the whole suit depending on what model you go with. $700 will get you a Brooks Brothers' tuxedo. Macy's has their Alfani tux separates, and the whole suit comes out to less than $300. it's a two-button, peak lapel and while I don't like two button for a tux, you could do worse. They also have a Hugo Boss for $800 and while I'm no HB fan, this one actually looks pretty nice. If you have some time and good outlets/stores with sales near you, you could always do some bargain/sale hunting. If you choose to just replace the trousers, get satin striped ones. Matching the trouser stripe and jacket facings is pretty important. As for the tie, it should match the facings. I'm assuming the bride has requested a plain black bow? Lastly, I'd opt for a turndown collar shirt, but it sounds like that's the least of your concerns right now. Hope you don't mind the candid thoughts on this.
Solid advice. I'll just add that I've seen peak lapel Hugo Boss tuxedos in their outlet for 450 less 30-40%. Another option to consider.
 

TimelesStyle

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Originally Posted by js4design
Solid advice. I'll just add that I've seen peak lapel Hugo Boss tuxedos in their outlet for 450 less 30-40%. Another option to consider.

Which outlet? If it's the same as the Cary Grant model (in terms of cut and details) sold in Macy's, Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's, that would be pretty good! In spite of the sh!t I give HB the fact that they managed to get all the details "right" (single button, peak lapel, besom pockets, no belt loops, matching lapel facings and trouser stripe) is pretty impressive when even Brooks Brothers uses pocket flaps.
 

Sazerac

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Trying to get matching pants will simply not work. Every black fabric looks different from every other black fabric unless they're matched together from the start. They're from different mills, different weaves, etc. Trying to match black to black so that it looks identical is, counterintuitively, almost totally impossible. This is only apparent when you try it. As I have.

And you should probably match the tie to the lapel.
 

Icehawk

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Originally Posted by Sazerac
Trying to get matching pants will simply not work. Every black fabric looks different from every other black fabric unless they're matched together from the start. They're from different mills, different weaves, etc. Trying to match black to black so that it looks identical is, counterintuitively, almost totally impossible. This is only apparent when you try it. As I have.

And you should probably match the tie to the lapel.


Yeah, I "know" this but probably need to see it to really get it. Suck in the gut time for me! Of course the funny bit is that the standard would be to match the tie to lapel as you said - but unless they are made at the same time they will also be off. I guess ideally you'd get all the pieces from the same cloth.


"Black Tie" but modern - this is a South Beach wedding so you can get away with whatever, I could probably do a 3pc velvet tux if I wanted
My nod to the bride's requests are the "blank" shirtfront and no waist covering and the rest traditional (PA slippers, black bow, etc).


I do appreciate the other thoughts but another tuxedo isn't an option now and this a nice, older Armani in new condition. I'm just not a drop 7 but Armani jackets fit me perfectly. The pants have a non-matching stripe and the jacket has what look like plastic buttons - but that's how Armani made it whether it's really correct or not.

As for collars, I much prefer a wing collar with tuxedo but I am American and it is what I am most accustomed to.

I wish I still needed a tux/had funds as there is a great Brioni in the FS forums whose measurements look good for me... ah, well!
 

TimelesStyle

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Originally Posted by Icehawk
Personally I think turndown collars with a tuxedo/bowtie look terrible but I'm American and most used to seeing wing collars with tuxedos.

Because most American men rent, and most rentals come with these...

Are you sure that your tux jacket and trousers are actually part of the same suit and weren't mismatched at some point? Never seen them come with different facings, but I suppose it's possible.
 

Matt S

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Originally Posted by Icehawk
As for collars, I much prefer a wing collar with tuxedo but I am American and it is what I am most accustomed to.

Have you seen any James Bond movies? That should be enough to make you want to get a turn-down collar dress shirt.
 

Icehawk

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Originally Posted by TimelesStyle
Are you sure that your tux jacket and trousers are actually part of the same suit and weren't mismatched at some point? Never seen them come with different facings, but I suppose it's possible.

I'll have to check their tags tomorrow and see... it is possible. Sadly I know rental tuxes come like that (satin lapel/gros pant trim) so I can see why to the SFer I'm not rocking a very unique or classic tuxedo. In my experience though having a great fitting jacket is what the average person notices.


I love Bond, but still prefer a wing collar and think martinis are nasty
 

js4design

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Originally Posted by TimelesStyle
Which outlet? If it's the same as the Cary Grant model (in terms of cut and details) sold in Macy's, Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's, that would be pretty good! In spite of the sh!t I give HB the fact that they managed to get all the details "right" (single button, peak lapel, besom pockets, no belt loops, matching lapel facings and trouser stripe) is pretty impressive when even Brooks Brothers uses pocket flaps.

The one I've seen is at the outlet in Williamsburg, VA. I don't know the Cary Grant, and as far as the specs I can only say peak single button and matching lapel facing and trouser stripe. I had recently purchased a tux so i wasn't in the market and didn't take in all the details but I was impressed with the fit after sizing down one. I'll be up that way for work this weekend so I can take a look and see the other specs.
 

BlackShoes

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Originally Posted by Icehawk
(this is for a wedding, bride has requested NO waist covering).

Ignore her, you need a waistcoat. Also, no slippers outside your own home, have some standards.
 

Sazerac

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Originally Posted by BlackShoes
Ignore her, you need a waistcoat. Also, no slippers outside your own home, have some standards.

Sorry, chief, you can't ignore the bride's wishes. She's the boss. Period.

Besides, the idea is for everyone to look the same. If she (wrongly, foolishly) wants everyone to wear no waistcoat or cummerbund, then he'll add an incongruous element to "her day" for the sake of following tradition and the advice of a bunch of internet tools like us have to say.

But if the bride hasn't specified a wing collar, then please reconsider this. It is about 80 years out of fashion and looks rental grade.
 

BlackShoes

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Originally Posted by Sazerac
Sorry, chief, you can't ignore the bride's wishes. She's the boss. Period.

Besides, the idea is for everyone to look the same. If she (wrongly, foolishly) wants everyone to wear no waistcoat or cummerbund, then he'll add an incongruous element to "her day" for the sake of following tradition and the advice of a bunch of internet tools like us have to say.

But if the bride hasn't specified a wing collar, then please reconsider this. It is about 80 years out of fashion and looks rental grade.


Piffle. One woman's neurosis about waist coverings is no reason to debase one's self. The worst that could happen is that people will pick him out as the only man with any taste or decorum.
 

Icehawk

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Originally Posted by BlackShoes
Also, no slippers outside your own home, have some standards.

Oh, really? Prince Albert slippers are one of three choices acceptable with a tuxedo, the other options would be a patent leather plain toe shoe or an opera pump. Of any part of the tuxedo this is one you really can't argue with my choice!


Just checked the labels on the jacket/pants - I don't know why Armani chose to use a satin lapel and grosgrain stripe... but they are the matching set. I can manage the pants for an evening but I think I'll have to invest in a new setup when I have some extra funds.


Shirt is a custom order so no changing that, and as I said I much prefer the look of a wing collar. The shirt can also be used with a regular (thin) tie, and I like that a look a lot as well.



Originally Posted by BlackShoes
Piffle. One woman's neurosis about waist coverings is no reason to debase one's self. The worst that could happen is that people will pick him out as the only man with any taste or decorum.

Considering I have spoken to her several times about this and she has said NO to waist coverings it would be plain rude of me to do otherwise. Trust me, I'd much prefer to have the option if I wanted - a cummerbund or vest could hide an open button
but this is a high zoot wedding and I'd like to attend so I'll follow her rules.



Time to order a satin bow!
 

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