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Tuxedo for My Wedding

Zfrist

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Hello, Appreciate your advice. I am getting married in 2months. I will order a tuxedo this week. Looking to spend $2K to $3K. Living in NYC.
Alternatives:
1) Enzo Custom - Use Loro Piana S170 - ~$2000
2) OTR like Ralph Lauren - $2200 to $3000
3) Push the budget for a bespoke - I need to get going this week to have on time?
4) What would be a MTM option with higher quality?
How to balance quality on fabric and tailoring?
I have a slim build. 6’3” 185lbs. Typically meed a 40L which makes OTR a challenge. And pants typically require a size bigger so makes it worse…
 

ZRH1

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slightly OT: I thought weddings are always planned at least a year in advance, given how hard it is to find a good location (party, not civil). Do you mind me asking how many months ago you got engaged? In any case, congratulations.
 

Zfrist

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slightly OT: I thought weddings are always planned at least a year in advance, given how hard it is to find a good location (party, not civil). Do you mind me asking how many months ago you got engaged? In any case, congratulations.
We got engaged September last year. With all those… And life… Tuxedo became less of a priority till 1,5 months ago :) And got more confused as I started to learn about it
 

classicalthunde

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Hello, Appreciate your advice. I am getting married in 2months. I will order a tuxedo this week. Looking to spend $2K to $3K. Living in NYC.
Alternatives:
1) Enzo Custom - Use Loro Piana S170 - ~$2000
2) OTR like Ralph Lauren - $2200 to $3000
3) Push the budget for a bespoke - I need to get going this week to have on time?
4) What would be a MTM option with higher quality?
How to balance quality on fabric and tailoring?
I have a slim build. 6’3” 185lbs. Typically meed a 40L which makes OTR a challenge. And pants typically require a size bigger so makes it worse…

2 months is too short a time frame for reliable and quality MTM or bespoke, I would strongly recommend skipping that option at this point, regardless of price point. If you had 6 months, maybe but even then it could be tight between alternations and any delays

Personally, I would avoid Enzo Custom (especially at that price point)...I didn't have a good experience with two orders years ago and there was recently a post here where the outcome is definitively not good.

If you are in NYC I would recommend going OTR at this point, especially if you have 2-3K to work with. I'd check out OTR at The Armoury or Ralph Lauren (high end), Paul Stuart or J Press (mid-range) and Suit Supply or Spier and Mackay (low end), all will have a variety of sizes in house or that they can order in a relatively short time frame and do a proper black tie rig. All of these shops except for Spier and Mackay (online order only) will be able to handle a variety of alterations to accommodate most body shapes. If you need a good alterations tailor for Spier just let me know and I'll throw a couple of recommendations.

I tend to view quality as binary (its either of sufficient quality or its not) and don't get bogged down in the mire of grades of quality. Personally, I would look for something that hits all the required black tie details and is half or full canvas construction, as long as it meets those I think I would be satisfied. You should focus more on fit and silhouette (how does it look on you), after all that is the only thing that 99.8% of people will notice or be able to discern about your outfit. All things considered a $800 tuxedo that fits you well and nails the style details will look better than a $4500 custom or designer one that doesn't.

I would strongly recommend going with a name brand fabric (VBC, Harrison, Fox, Minnis, Loro Piana, etc.) but also not to get too caught up in "S numbers" as that is largely marketing...there are plenty of great s-100 and s-120 fabrics that are far better than s-150 or s-180 cloths. I would focus more on cloth weight and composition. Avoid anything less than 240g and anything north of 370g. A wool-mohair blend will be on the lighter weight end and have more sheen to it, a pure wool should be a bit heavier and more matte.
 
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Zfrist

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2 months is too short a time frame for reliable and quality MTM or bespoke, I would strongly recommend skipping that option at this point, regardless of price point. If you had 6 months, maybe but even then it could be tight between alternations and any delays

Personally, I would avoid Enzo Custom (especially at that price point)...I didn't have a good experience with two orders years ago and there was recently a post here where the outcome is definitively not good.

If you are in NYC I would recommend going OTR at this point, especially if you have 2-3K to work with. I'd check out OTR at The Armoury or Ralph Lauren (high end), Paul Stuart or J Press (mid-range) and Suit Supply or Spier and Mackay (low end), all will have a variety of sizes in house or that they can order in a relatively short time frame and do a proper black tie rig. All of these shops except for Spier and Mackay (online order only) will be able to handle a variety of alterations to accommodate most body shapes. If you need a good alterations tailor for Spier just let me know and I'll throw a couple of recommendations.

I tend to view quality as binary (its either of sufficient quality or its not) and don't get bogged down in the mire of grades of quality. Personally, I would look for something that hits all the required black tie details and is half or full canvas construction, as long as it meets those I think I would be satisfied. You should focus more on fit and silhouette (how does it look on you), after all that is the only thing that 99.8% of people will notice or be able to discern about your outfit. All things considered a $800 tuxedo that fits you well and nails the style details will look better than a $4500 custom or designer one that doesn't.

I would strongly recommend going with a name brand fabric (VBC, Harrison, Fox, Minnis, Loro Piana, etc.) but also not to get too caught up in "S numbers" as that is largely marketing...there are plenty of great s-100 and s-120 fabrics that are far better than s-150 or s-180 cloths. I would focus more on cloth weight and composition. Avoid anything less than 240g and anything north of 370g. A wool-mohair blend will be on the lighter weight end and have more sheen to it, a pure wool should be a bit heavier and more matte.
Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time. Clearly I am confused so it was very helpful.
I checked some OTR options. Could you please give me your two cents on a comparison of below? I know it is a long list but... I did some research after your message. Got into few other brands as I looked up yours. Price point varies between $2K-$4K. I assume quality as well. Simply looking for a good value point here. I will check 4 of these today is my plan. But of course helps to have a more educated lens.







 

classicalthunde

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Thank you! Really appreciate you taking the time. Clearly I am confused so it was very helpful.
I checked some OTR options. Could you please give me your two cents on a comparison of below? I know it is a long list but... I did some research after your message. Got into few other brands as I looked up yours. Price point varies between $2K-$4K. I assume quality as well. Simply looking for a good value point here. I will check 4 of these today is my plan. But of course helps to have a more educated lens.








A couple of thoughts:

- IMO a proper tuxedo needs, at the minimum, a peak or shawl lapel (no notches), have jetted pockets (no flaps), have a silk or grosgrain facing on the lapels and stripe on the trouser outseam, and no belt loops (suspenders or side adjusters only).

- The RLPL, Armoury Model 4, and Canali tux meet these minimum requirements. The Sid, Armani, and SamuelSohn do not, I would steer clear of those. Lastly, $4K for an Armani half canvas is a terrible value proposition and you're largely paying for the name here, would also avoid...at that price point I would get an Armoury Model 101 or 104 and call it a day.

- Service at The Armoury is top notch, you will be in very good hands and they will certainly let you know if their stock can work with your frame and height without putting on the hard sell. There's often a saying around here that says "buy the fitter and not the suit" as without good guidance a great suit can still look like trash.

- Don't immediately discount SuitSupply due to price point, their black tie is classic and looks good, ticks all the boxes, and is readily available. Plus you wont feel so bad when you spill a drink on it or get cake smashed in your face. You also would have plenty of money in your budget left over for accessories (shirt, shoes, cufflinks, studs, suspenders, etc.) which can add up quickly. Or possibly even a secondary dinner jacket (such as a seasonally appropriate ivory shawl) for a wardrobe change at the reception or future use...
 
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Zfrist

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A couple of thoughts:

- IMO a proper tuxedo needs, at the minimum, a peak or shawl lapel (no notches), have jetted pockets (no flaps), have a silk or grosgrain facing on the lapels and stripe on the trouser outseam, and no belt loops (suspenders or side adjusters only).

- The RLPL, Armoury Model 4, and Canali tux meet these minimum requirements. The Sid, Armani, and SamuelSohn do not, I would steer clear of those. Lastly, $4K for an Armani half canvas is a terrible value proposition and you're largely paying for the name here, would also avoid...at that price point I would get an Armoury Model 101 or 104 and call it a day.

- Service at The Armoury is top notch, you will be in very good hands and they will certainly let you know if their stock can work with your frame and height without putting on the hard sell. There's often a saying around here that says "buy the fitter and not the suit" as without good guidance a great suit can still look like trash.

- Don't immediately discount SuitSupply due to price point, their black tie is classic and looks good, ticks all the boxes, and is readily available. Plus you wont feel so bad when you spill a drink on it or get cake smashed in your face. You also would have plenty of money in your budget left over for accessories (shirt, shoes, cufflinks, studs, suspenders, etc.) which can add up quickly. Or possibly even a secondary dinner jacket (such as a seasonally appropriate ivory shawl) for a wardrobe change at the reception or future use...
Thank you!! I tracked all you checked out back to your comments on minimum requirements on a tux except Armani. Out of curiosity, what made you cross of that one?

I will go to Armoury today and check that out. Appreciate the feedback. Canali and RLPL are ~1 hour train ride. So will be later in the week.

On SuitSupply... How about going for MTM? They are suggesting a 3-4 weeks delivery. Which gives me another full month for any alterations, if required after. I can potentially pick a slightly better fabric, and I am assuming I would get a better fit in the end? A full canvassed suit with VBC S150 is still <$1500. Would you say not worth it vs what you got?

Btw I checked ISAIA OTR as well. Price there is clearly higher, ~$4.5K. And while quality was very clear, Armani honestly had felt more of a special occasion one, with a better fit to my build, when I had tried.
 

classicalthunde

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I tracked all you checked out back to your comments on minimum requirements on a tux except Armani. Out of curiosity, what made you cross of that one?

The Armani suit meets the requirements, but at a cost of $4K its value proposition is totally out of balance given that it is only a half canvas construction and a no-name fabric and no other construction details are offered. An Armani tux is just a piece designed by a mega-fashion house so they can the option in their portfolio.

Contrast this with The Armoury's high end models (101 and 104) which are nicer and cost less than the Armani suit. They use high quality name brand fabric and are largely (if not completely) hand made at one of the best factories in Italy. The Armoury tux is also purposefully designed by people who love classic traditional menswear.

To use a metaphor, getting the Armani would be like ordering a filet mignon (popular fancy cut) at any fine dining restaurant in the city. It'll be good, and expensive...but ultimately not necessarily the thing the restaurant is known for. Whereas getting a Model 101/104 from The Armoury is like ordering a ribeye or porterhouse at Peter Lugers or Keens...at the risk of sounding like a douche - its the connoisseur's choice and quintessential example of the form.
 
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classicalthunde

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On SuitSupply... How about going for MTM? They are suggesting a 3-4 weeks delivery. Which gives me another full month for any alterations, if required after. I can potentially pick a slightly better fabric, and I am assuming I would get a better fit in the end? A full canvassed suit with VBC S150 is still <$1500. Would you say not worth it vs what you got?

In all honestly, the difference between the standard VBC fabric and a VBC 150 fabric is basically negligible in terms of how 'nice' it is - what is nice? soft or durable? shiny or matte? good drape or lightweight? If you don't already know the answers to these questions don't necessarily work about the minutiae of picking a fabric out

Also, all things being equal there is more that can go wrong with custom than an OTR outfit...you have a greater risk (what if it comes in and doesn't fit well...now your down $1500 and 4 weeks and need to find an alternative on a shorter time frame). Whereas with an OTR choice you basically know how it looks and feels on you before you purchase it, which means far less risk.
 
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Zfrist

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The Armani suit meets the requirements, but at a cost of $4K its value proposition is totally out of balance given that it is only a half canvas construction and a no-name fabric and no other construction details are offered. An Armani tux is just a piece designed by a mega-fashion house so they can the option in their portfolio.

Contrast this with The Armoury's high end models (101 and 104) which are nicer and cost less than the Armani suit. They use high quality name brand fabric and are largely (if not completely) hand made at one of the best factories in Italy. The Armoury tux is also purposefully designed by people who love classic traditional menswear.

To use a metaphor, getting the Armani would be like ordering a filet mignon (popular fancy cut) at any fine dining restaurant in the city. It'll be good, and expensive...but ultimately not necessarily the thing the restaurant is known for. Whereas getting a Model 101/104 from The Armoury is like ordering a ribeye or porterhouse at Peter Lugers or Keens...at the risk of sounding like a douche - its the connoisseur's choice and quintessential example of the form.
Once again, Thank you! And sure Keens is great : )
 

Zfrist

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In all honestly, the difference between the standard VBC fabric and a VBC 150 fabric is basically negligible in terms of how 'nice' it is - what is nice? soft or durable? shiny or matte? good drape or lightweight? If you don't already know the answers to these questions don't necessarily work about the minutiae of picking a fabric out

Also, all things being equal there is more that can go wrong with custom than an OTR outfit...you have a greater risk (what if it comes in and doesn't fit well...now your down $1500 and 4 weeks and need to find an alternative on a shorter time frame). Whereas with an OTR choice you basically know how it looks and feels on you before you purchase it, which means far less risk.
Soft, shiny and good drape. And also the feeling of getting something special for a special day in life... But I understand what you mean. This is very helpful. Thank you for taking the time and answering throughly on all my questions
 

comrade

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I have heard that this place is really good. Never set foot in LS,
but it might be worth a look. Re: The Armoury. I was very impressed with
them. After trying on sample jackets and measuring me, they declined to
order MTM for me, commenting that the Italian maker that they might use
was not reliable and might not follow the modifications required. Full disclosure:
I am a 44R, sometimes 46R and broad. SFers who remember me from meet-ups
in the 2010s will recall that I do not look like an odd size,
 

Sreezy36

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I would consider Spier and Mackay.

Make sure that you have accurate body measurements and buy accordingly.

There are plenty of options on the site for black tie and you wont break the bank on the RTW tuxedo considering the fact that you might spend 200+ on alterations.

Also, the fabric will be of good quality.

 

Zfrist

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Thank you! I went to The Armory today. Great people. Thank you for the recommendation. Unfortunately 40R OTR Jacket was not long enough for my build. And sure they were the first ones saying this wont work. Their custom timeline is not an option either as they estimate ~4 months. But I will definitely keep them top of mind for any future purchase.

Path right now is either RLPL, Canali or SuiteSupply OTR. They will have the right sizes for the three suits Thu and/or Fri hopefully. And plan is to make a call after. (SuiteSupply MTM is still in consideration at the back of my head as well. VBC S150 felt better when I compared today).

Thank you for the two additional recommendations. Will check them as well.
 

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