Tux talk: finished curtained waistband > cummerbund/vest?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gumercindo, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. gumercindo

    gumercindo Senior member

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    I just got a great deal on a RLPL tux and it's on the way (1B, Peak Lapel). But here's my dilemma - its trousers features a finished curtained waistband.

    Recently, it seems that the finished curtain waistband is slowly replacing the need for a cummerbund/vest. What are your thoughts on forgoing the cummerbund/vest in this case?

    Additionally, I plan on getting a turn down collar, but not 100% sure what kind of shirt to get with it. Pleats, pique, bib, etc. Any recommendations.

    I assume braces all the way as well?
     


  2. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I really, really hate this. Such a cheap, corner-cuttting operation.

    I'm not much into cummerbunds either, but my DJ is DB so I don't need one.

    I would like to get an SB DJ and wear it with a formal vest, but I can't justify a second DJ when there is always another suit I could unjustifiably blow some money on.

    Braces are correct with the DJ.

    I prefer a pique front formal shirt, but if you get pleats, fewer and deeper looks better than many and shallow, in my opinion.
     


  3. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    But here's my dilemma - its trousers features a finished curtained waistband.

    Recently, it seems that the finished curtain waistband is slowly replacing the need for a cummerbund/vest. What are your thoughts on forgoing the cummerbund/vest in this case?



    I'm lost, do you mean the interior waistband?
     


  4. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I'm lost, do you mean the interior waistband?

    No, the wastband itself is made out of satin or what have you, to look like a cummerbund -- unless I misunderstand his post, but I have seen this a lot over the last ten years.
     


  5. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    No, the wastband itself is made out of satin or what have you, to look like a cummerbund.

    Ahh, I see said the blind man. Sounds rather cheesy, but I am not a cummberband wearer anyway.
     


  6. gumercindo

    gumercindo Senior member

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    Yes, correct.

    I really, really hate this. Such a cheap, corner-cuttting operation.

    I'm not much into cummerbunds either, but my DJ is DB so I don't need one.

    I would like to get an SB DJ and wear it with a formal vest, but I can't justify a second DJ when there is always another suit I could unjustifiably blow some money on.

    Braces are correct with the DJ.

    I prefer a pique front formal shirt, but if you get pleats, fewer and deeper looks better than many and shallow, in my opinion.


    Manton, I hear ya on the cummerbunds. I'm not a big fan, but it's supposedly the more "classic" look for semi-formal attire. Vests, for the most part, seem to have too many buttons. There are not a lot of U shaped 3 button ones at an afforable price.

    For this style of event, do you favor a standard vest/turn down collar/pleated shirt?

    If the lapel on the DJ are grosgrain, does the bowtie and vest/cummerbund have to be grosgrain as well?

    thanks again!
     


  7. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Not sure what the event is, but I would never wear a high, suit-like six button vest with a DJ.

    As to shirts, while I think a proper wing collar shirt looks great with an SB DJ, good ones are hard to find and a lot of bother. Turndown just makes more sense.

    Yes, technically, the material of the tie and the lapel facings are supposed to match. But no one will notice if they don't, and frankly I don't think it looks bad when they don't. I don't like satin ties, and would always wear grosgrain. I prefer grosgrain lapels, but don't mind satin. I would (and have) happily wear a grosgrain tie with satin facings.
     


  8. gumercindo

    gumercindo Senior member

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    Not sure what the event is, but I would never wear a high, suit-like six button vest with a DJ.

    As to shirts, while I think a proper wing collar shirt looks great with an SB DJ, good ones are hard to find and a lot of bother. Turndown just makes more sense.

    Yes, technically, the material of the tie and the lapel facings are supposed to match. But no one will notice if they don't, and frankly I don't think it looks bad when they don't. I don't like satin ties, and would always wear grosgrain. I prefer grosgrain lapels, but don't mind satin. I would (and have) happily wear a grosgrain tie with satin facings.



    Thanks for your comments...

    This is a dinner black tie gala benefiting The Pennsylvania Horticultural Society. [​IMG]

    What would you recommend in lieu of a high-number count button vest and cummerbund?

    And lastly, what are your thoughts on the shirt? Pique or the standard pleats?
     


  9. okdc

    okdc Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what the event is, but I would never wear a high, suit-like six button vest with a DJ.

    As to shirts, while I think a proper wing collar shirt looks great with an SB DJ, good ones are hard to find and a lot of bother. Turndown just makes more sense.

    Yes, technically, the material of the tie and the lapel facings are supposed to match. But no one will notice if they don't, and frankly I don't think it looks bad when they don't. I don't like satin ties, and would always wear grosgrain. I prefer grosgrain lapels, but don't mind satin. I would (and have) happily wear a grosgrain tie with satin facings.


    Manton,

    I appreciate your insights and I am in the same situation. I would greatly appreciate your thought on where to get a low closing, double breasted vest. I am considering having a formal shirt made and thinking of asking the tailor if he can do the vest as well. Would you recommend that strategy? I am not trying to hijack the thread as I think this pertains to both me and gumercindo.

    Additionally, what is your opinion of a covered plackett formal shirt?
     


  10. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    What would you recommend in lieu of a high-number count button vest and cummerbund?
    Definitely no high button vest. If you can't find a low one, and hate cummerbunds, just skip it and leave your jacket buttoned.

    Much prefer pique myself.

    I am considering having a formal shirt made and thinking of asking the tailor if he can do the vest as well. Would you recommend that strategy?
    Probably won't work because A) Shirtmakers don't make vests and B) the cloth really should match the DJ cloth, and you will have no way of getting more. An alternative is a white pique white tie odd vest, but this really should be worn with a wing collar shirt.

    Don't like 'em myself, I like to show studs.
     


  11. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Senior member

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    As always, Manton's got all the right answers. Welcome back.

    A good online reference of the correct, proper blacktie is

    http://www.blacktieguide.com
     


  12. Cravate_Noire

    Cravate_Noire Senior member

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    Wohoo, welcome back manton!

    I either wear a cummerbund or the pique waistocoat (with peak lapel DJ) from my evening tailcoat, I'm searching a black waistcoat but dont find anything sutiable...
    IMHO DJs need some separate waist cover until they are DB.


    As we hit formal wear again... what about a boiled front detachable collar shirt worn with a soft detachable turndown collar with a shawl lapel DJ or do you think that the ultra stiff shirt shall be reserved for ultra stiff collars+more formal evening wear (meaning peak lapel DJ or evening Tailcoat?).
     


  13. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    No, the wastband itself is made out of satin or what have you, to look like a cummerbund -- unless I misunderstand his post, but I have seen this a lot over the last ten years.

    Ahh, I see said the blind man. Sounds rather cheesy, but I am not a cummberband wearer anyway.

    Yes, correct.
    This is really cheesy to old farts like me. Of the "innovations" in black tie, this is the least offensive to me. If I had it, I would probably live with it, if it is higher than a normal waistband, otherwise, ignore it and wear a cummerbund (or vest)



    Manton, I hear ya on the cummerbunds. I'm not a big fan, but it's supposedly the more "classic" look for semi-formal attire. Vests, for the most part, seem to have too many buttons. There are not a lot of U shaped 3 button ones at an afforable price.

    For this style of event, do you favor a standard vest/turn down collar/pleated shirt?

    If the lapel on the DJ are grosgrain, does the bowtie and vest/cummerbund have to be grosgrain as well?

    thanks again!


    Thanks for your comments...

    This is a dinner black tie gala benefiting The Pennsylvania Horticultural Society. [​IMG]

    What would you recommend in lieu of a high-number count button vest and cummerbund?

    And lastly, what are your thoughts on the shirt? Pique or the standard pleats?


    I wear a SB PL DJ with a white cummerbund. I use either a turn down collar or a detached wing collar. I don't like the idea of vests and find the cummerbund perfectly comfortable - I can't imagine that a vest would be as comfortable, but I don't really know. While my DJ has grosgrain lapels, I sometimes wear black satin bowtie and sometimes a grosgrain one (and sometimes a black repp twill bowtie with white and yellow narrow stripes and sometimes a kelly green one with narrow black and white stripes - but for your event, I would stick with plain black).

    One consideration - check the button stance on your DJ. If, when standing with your hands in the pockets, the jacket opens up to show your shirt below the button or the satin trouser tops look bad, you need to get a cummerbund or vest. If not, I wouldn't rush to spend extra money if this is not going to be something you wear a lot.
     


  14. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I just got a great deal on a RLPL tux and it's on the way (1B, Peak Lapel). But here's my dilemma - its trousers features a finished curtained waistband.

    Recently, it seems that the finished curtain waistband is slowly replacing the need for a cummerbund/vest.


    The curtain is the interior covering of the waistband usually made from pocketing material or lining.

    If you have a waistband made of silk and not the tuxedo cloth, it is referred to as a "silk waistband". Done this way to additionally distinguish the trouser as a formal trouser and if you do not cover the trouser top with a vest or cummerbund it will give a hint that you are wearing a cummerbund.
     


  15. gumercindo

    gumercindo Senior member

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    Great information here in this thread!

    My last question deals with cufflinks and studs.

    Is a matching (dark gem like onyx) set most appropriate in this case? Or, can I get away with dark studs and some silver cufflinks?

    Is this too much silver?

    http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Woven-...809744&sr=1-64

    [​IMG]
     


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