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Turnbull & Asser

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by wja, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. wja

    wja Well-Known Member

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    Not long ago I showed pictures of a sample shirt from T&A. Apart from the failure to match the pattern on the sleeve placket, it turned that the shirt didn't fit. After several very civil conversations we (T&A and I) have agreed that I might be happier with, and better served, by another shirtmaker. Regrets on both sides. Bad luck. Things change, yadda, yadda.

    So I am in need of another shirtmaker and ask you for recommendations. I have heard and read about Ascot Chang, Paris, Geneva, and Len Logsdail. I don't mention Alex because I'm not quite in that league. Can you help? Thanks, Bill
     


  2. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    Does Len provide bespoke shirts? I thought he was a devotee of Hilditch & Key bespoke.
     


  3. wja

    wja Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned Mr. Logsdail because I read his name here: LEN link
     


  4. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I don't think he does. He used to allow a separate vendor to offer shirts out of the shop, but that guy left a long time ago.
     


  5. tdial

    tdial Senior member

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    What's the price comparison of T&A MTM and Borrelli MTM?
     


  6. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I must say, it's been a long time since I heard anything good about this company. Â So they make a shirt that doesn't fit, and the patterns don't match, and they conclude that it's partly your fault? Â How, exactly? Â What exactly do you have to regret, apart from going there in the first place? I suppose in one sense the parting was mutual: they didn't want to do first-class work, and you wouldn't accept sub-standard work. Â So you both just agreed to disagree. But it is sad. Â A company like Turnbull has a towering reputation. Â Telling clients to skedaddle because Turnbull can't be bothered to get their shirts right, and they don't like clients who point that out, is not the way to keep the rep intact.
     


  7. uriahheep

    uriahheep Senior member

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    Len still offers shirts.
    Perry Ercolino still meets clients at Len's shop.
     


  8. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Anyway, on to more constructive advice.  If you want a real bespoke shirt in NYC, and want to work directly with the maker, try Paris.  They match patterns and the shirts fit.  They will make samples until they get the pattern right.  It's a good shop, and the prices are better than the English bespoke makers with shops in the city, and comparable to high-end department store MTM (many of which they actually make).  I have used them, I was satsified.

    I have heard good and some less than good things about Geneva.  They are in the same building and their prices are a little lower.  I would go back to Paris before I tried Geneva.  To my eye, Paris makes a better shirt.
     


  9. jamesbond

    jamesbond Senior member

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    what turnbull location did you go to, and who measured you?
     


  10. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Last time I entered the NYC T&A premises I was told something like "oh, you want your patterns MATCHED" like it was an out of the ordinary request, when I asked about about matching a pattern on a striped shirt.

    Jon.
     


  11. Mark Seitelman

    Mark Seitelman Senior member

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    I never noticed the pattern matching issue on Turnbull until I tuned into the fora.

    I have been a bespoke customer for 6 years. Some Turnbulls have matching patterns at the shoulder, and some don't. I don't think that any of my shirts have matching patterns at the gauntlet.

    I have some bespoke shirts which were made by Paris for a NYC clothier. These have pefectly matched patterns at all points. I would say that Paris's workmanship is better than Turnbull. I would go to Paris direct if I did not already have a relationship with my clothier.
     


  12. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Senior member

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    So what is the Paris price range and minimum order?
     


  13. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I have not been in a while.  The minimum used to be three, I think.  Certainly, my first order was for three.  Average price was around $200.  This was four to five years ago.  No doubt the prices have gone up, but from what I have heard, not by too much.  I think even high count cloth is still well under $300 per shirt.
     


  14. jester

    jester Senior member

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    The shirts I have had made from T&A (in London) had perfect matching. The problem was the fit--after washing. I have a number of RTW T&A shirts that all fit perfectly, but most of my bespoke T&A shirts, which originally fit fine, have shrunken to the point where I can't wear them at all if I want to breathe.

    I don't know why this is the case--perhaps I got a fabric especially prone to shrinkage--but it's deeply annoying.
     


  15. wja

    wja Well-Known Member

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    Paris is sounding better and better. Someone asked me who measured me at T&A; it was Simon Hobbs each time and that goes back to 1985. He is a good fellow.

    The pattern matching thing is also a new issue for me since I've only had solid shirts in the past. I have been a satisfied customer for quite a while and was willing to give them quite a lot of leeway here to get these latest shirts right. However, since last May it has taken 4 visits to the city, 4 sets of measurements, 2 sets of photos, and 2 sample shirts to get to the point of producing a shirt which is close enough to my measurements that it can be altered to fit me. This is bespoke at $375 a pop?

    I have it from the mouth of the horse that they have moved their production facilities to Gloucester. Some of their experienced employees declined to make the move with them. Also, demand for their shirts is up (go figure). They have always treated me well and I hope that they get over their problems, but have decided that they can practice on someone else for a while.
     


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