Turnbull & Asser

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by royal618, Jun 3, 2006.

  1. Connemara

    Connemara [URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jST2Sv63WQ']

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    Lorenzini is probably one of the best RTW machine made shirts around. It is definetely above average.

    Lorenzini shirts also fit like tents.
     


  2. Pink22m

    Pink22m Senior member

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    So do many shirts from Borrelli and Kiton. That doesn't make them any less of a shirt, at least quality wise.
     


  3. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    Lorenzini shirts also fit like tents.

    I purchased a Lorenzini shirt from Koji on these forums that fit rather trim. At least trimmer than most other shirts one could find. But true, it wasn't as slim as what I needed. At least Lorenzini has rather good construction, and really nice semi-thick (not Borrelli-ish, but good) MOP buttons.

    I think Lorenzini offers a great shirt for the money. Much better than the competition that the price range ($250ish?).

    I believe they make shirts for RLPL. T&A used to make shirts for RLPL if I'm not mistaken.
     


  4. tiger02

    tiger02 Militarist

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    Are you sure? The two I own are double-needle stitched.
    Ditto.

    Fabrics and construction are great, but like Turnbull they could house a family of four.
     


  5. Jovan

    Jovan Banned for Good

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    I would think the T&A shirts that are double stitched are the same ones at Neiman Marcus...
     


  6. brescd01

    brescd01 Senior member

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    In the eternal search for the "properly slim-fitting" RTW shirt, I cannot imagine why anyone well-informed would spend more than 100-or-so dollars on a RTW shirt, rather than just get a made-to-measure or bespoke shirt. Of course, maybe other peoples' time is more valuable than my own, but I need only five minutes to order more shirts from Jantzen, and I cannot imagine that MyTailor or Chan are more difficult. Even the best RTW shirts are such crap-shoots where fit is concerned, they change their fit for every retail customer (or seem to). Barba, a shirt whose quality is superb, is terrible in this regard.
     


  7. dennisdomino

    dennisdomino Well-Known Member

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    In the eternal search for the "properly slim-fitting" RTW shirt, I cannot imagine why anyone well-informed would spend more than 100-or-so dollars on a RTW shirt, rather than just get a made-to-measure or bespoke shirt. Of course, maybe other peoples' time is more valuable than my own, but I need only five minutes to order more shirts from Jantzen, and I cannot imagine that MyTailor or Chan are more difficult. Even the best RTW shirts are such crap-shoots where fit is concerned, they change their fit for every retail customer (or seem to). Barba, a shirt whose quality is superb, is terrible in this regard.

    I agree. Many people here mentioned elements that one RTW shirt has that the others don't have, but if you get decent mtm or bespoke you can combine all of the details that you like in any ready-to- wear shirt. I wear a big watch and several of you mentioned the problem with the T&A shirts being too tight in the wrist. I just have my mtm shirts made with a wider left cuff and they slide right over. The fit, the collar style, everything made just the way I like it. I delight in fact, in not having to deal with rtw shirts ever again and in many cases I am paying less than I would have for Charvet or T&A!
     


  8. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    Well Bresch, convenience and speed are important. Bespoke or MTM are bigger crap shoots than RTW, particularly when you are measuring yourself and sending instructions away. Not everyone has your certain Bresch savantism.

    I find it a tad depressing that on these forums we call Zegna and Lorenzini average. I don't agree with that assessment of Lorenzini (and don't own any Zegna shirts). T&A are very good shirts. With the exchange rate the prices are very high, but the cottons are uniformly good and the buttons are true deep shell mother of pearl, unlike any other Jermyn St maker, including Hilditch, who uses troca shells (albeit better quality ones than the rest of the street). I think H&K is better made, but it lacks the theatricality of T&A. Said theatricality is another thing the casual customer may not be able to conjure in a self-designed bespoke/MTM shirt. T&A shirts have choices of daringly bold patterns. They have the elongated 3-button cuff (which I have never seen or worn except with all buttons buttoned) and a high collar stance with slightly rounded points which is quite elegant. Despite double-needle stitching in places, the quality is there. In contrast, H&K, the best of the other Jermyn St makers (leaving out Budd) has a very classic, low-key spread and handsome rounded double cuffs or single-button barrel cuffs.
    AFAIK, T&A likes a close-fitting cuff, even in bespoke. However, what I have read about their bespoke would disincline me to order from them, or indeed from any British shirtmaker except maybe Budd, David Gale, Stephen Lachter or Robert Whitaker at Dege, or maybe the Thomas Mahon Englishcut MTM shirts.
     


  9. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

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    I don't believe that is accurate. I just flipped through my copy of "Turnbull & Asser: The Pedigree and Style of a Very English Institution," which is something of an official history of the firm, and everyone pictured with the 3 button cuff has all three buttons buttoned.

    Not everyone actually does this, John Kerry included. However, I read several old articles in the NY Times in which a fashion editor went to T&A for bespoke shirts. In various articles, the tailor he worked with mentioned that only the middle button was supposed to be buttoned, although many people button all 3.
     


  10. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

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    Also, as far as price, I think shirts are about $100 at T&A's sale, which starts tomorrow, which is very reasonable.
     


  11. brescd01

    brescd01 Senior member

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    Jantzen in 10 days. And I would say, of the people who actually think about their shirts on the fora, I probably know the least of anyone. Given the cat-like patience we know you possess RJ, and your location in Paris, unless you can try on the shirt before you buy it, RTW is the biggest crap shoot of all. Of all the 46 shirts I have bought, I have had many more surprises with RTW than I had with bespoke. The only way in which bespoke could pose a surprise is with an expensive maker that is chisseling (like T&A is reputed to do) and won't take responsibility for their mistakes or problems, which at the prices they charge, is unforgivable. Jantzen disavows every shirt it makes, but at $45 per, this is not an issue.

    Case in point: I ordered two shirts by Barba from Yoox. Identical sizes. Both arrived with absurdly long sleeves, I expected that. But one came with darts, which pressed against my spare tire. I will have to fix that, wasting time and expense. Neither has pockets, limiting their utility.
     


  12. coachvu

    coachvu Senior member

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    Jantzen in 10 days. And I would say, of the people who actually think about their shirts on the fora, I probably know the least of anyone. Given the cat-like patience we know you possess RJ, and your location in Paris, unless you can try on the shirt before you buy it, RTW is the biggest crap shoot of all. Of all the 46 shirts I have bought, I have had many more surprises with RTW than I had with bespoke. The only way in which bespoke could pose a surprise is with an expensive maker that is chisseling (like T&A is reputed to do) and won't take responsibility for their mistakes or problems, which at the prices they charge, is unforgivable. Jantzen disavows every shirt it makes, but at $45 per, this is not an issue.

    Case in point: I ordered two shirts by Barba from Yoox. Identical sizes. Both arrived with absurdly long sleeves, I expected that. But one came with darts, which pressed against my spare tire. I will have to fix that, wasting time and expense. Neither has pockets, limiting their utility.


    It seems that very few people on the forum are getting Jantzen shirts in ten days. Also, snagging a T&A sea island cotton shirt for $100 is a great deal. The fabric is much nicer than that offered by Jantzen.
     


  13. brescd01

    brescd01 Senior member

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    Ahhh, the one thing I do right. I have said it repeatedly and no one listens to me, but if you dispense with the web site altogether and with email, and call Ricky on the phone, all your problems would disappear. He speaks and writes English MUCH better than he reads it.

    But Jantzen is one of at least three such outfits. Chan and MyTailor do the same thing, with better service (reportedly).

    Of course, T&A @ $100 is a great deal. I said that spending significantly MORE than $100 was crazy on RTW, unless you can be absolutely sure of the pattern and fit. Carlo Franco would be a good example of someone who is going to be absolutely reliable. I cannot compare the brands (I have too little experience) but I have a lot of experience with Barba, and they are terrible in this regard, consistency of fit.
     


  14. Tomasso

    Tomasso Senior member

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    T&A mentioned that only the middle button was supposed to be buttoned, although many people button all 3.

    I was a T&A customer and I was told the same thing by both the London and NYC stores.
     


  15. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    Maybe $250 or $300 at the very bottom end. I think the cheapest bespoke is $325.



    The T&A shirts I have are rather long lasting. However for that type of money you can get the same fabrics in 100s from a good custom shirt maker.

    The principle attraction of T&A shirts are the extra high collars and the Carnaby Street/ Are You Being Served, swinging London colors...yeah baby.

    Turnbull's clumsy way of sewing buttons on make them unpleasant to button. At least the ones I have which are around 7-8 years old.

    I have shirts from Charvet and H&K that have held up also... but again for that kind of money you can go to what I and most in the know consider the best custom shirt maker in the USA, Paris Custom Shirts in Manhattan. They will be able to offer the same and much better cottons in the same, similar or better colors and patterns and weaves that T&A uses. I wrote an article on them and I have another one about to launch:

    http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/article/is-paris-burning

    Also recommended but making a very different type of shirt which aligns itself more with the natural shouldered tradition is:

    Seewaldt & Bauman
    516-379-8724

    1741 Petit Avenue
    Merrick, NY 11566


    If you are on more of a budget, there is no reason not to try CEGO. Shirtmaven understands the various styles and looks very well and has several different shirt programs at differing costs. He is a cloth aficionado and always has excellent cottons which he's acquired at a bargain and is happy to pass the savings on to you.

    His website is of course:


    http://www.cego.com/
     


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