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Trying to Understand the Talk About "New SF" and "New SF B&S"

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by jischwar, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    [​IMG]
     
  2. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    agreed. the majority of new threads are made for simple self serving needs, that really could be a question and quick couple replies in one of the many useful running threads that are consistently on the first page.

    personally, for me its come to the point that i dont even really look at the new threads that are posted, it just too focking painful. i stick with the ones i am active in, WAYWRN, rock your socks, G&G and a few others. i only saw edmorels thread about pattern matching because it was linked in a different thread i visit.

    i guess that pretty much says it. but then again, admittedly, i did start a few like that when i first joined. so maybe it is just inevitable. this really leads back to the age old question of, should there be a post requirement to start a new thread?

    agreed. that is why i dont start threads anymore. 1. i cant start good ones. 2. i am neither intelligent nor knowledgable. i have plenty of energy though.

    question is though, why dont these few people who have what takes, start more threads, is it as Thomas said, they have just run out of things to say? i highly doubt it. presumably these people are very active in new endeavors in their lives regarding mens clothing, and new things always lead to new conversations.

    i am though considering a new thread, maybe ill PM you for your opinion of its value.

    this is the part where i am unsure. was the monty thread mis handled? i never saw it, and its not really my place to say. is it a shame though that he got all kinds of shit from useless posters though. i can say that much.

    lastly, while it might be true "that the site had somehow become geared to the non-contributor, or contributors following a sanctioned script, and retailers, a while ago..." i am not sure that that was a conscious decision of the moderators of the forum, or just something that happened with the great influx of "members who make less than, oh, 100 total posts? In other words, people who are oriented to their own needs and demands rather than bringing something to the table themselves."

    either way, there should be some pro active attempt to redirect where things are headed. just my opinions. let me know if any of that rings true to you.
     
  3. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Challenge for the OP, IS and anyone else who is interested:

    Do a search focusing on earlier threads. You can use your favorite brand, topic, member, etc. as the search terms. Spend some time reading thru those threads you find and take note of the participants and what they posted. I'd bet that if you did this in sincerity and then came back to 2012 you will see what we're saying.

    I almost think that some of those threads should be put in a list and frontpaged on a weekly basis. I think Fok's contest thread would take off (at least on the MC side) and the bonus would be that newer members should get a sense of SF's history. This may very well change the tone of today.
     
  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I agree with a lot of what's been said. Vox (F. Corbera now, for all you newbs) and Nore (BigBris) hit on a lot of good points. It's hard to pick out a particular change that most captures the forum's decline, but if forced to, I'd say it's been the shift from being a consumer-oriented meeting place to an outlet for vendors to hawk their wares. This used to be the kind of place that empowered consumers of men's clothing--which was particularly useful for those of who buy bespoke, as opaque as that market is. You could come here to get the inside track, learning from the experiences of fellow customers and clients. Now, vendors are everywhere (including former regular members) leading discussion and the forum management even puts out its own original content. This has a chilling effect on discussion, as some participants are consequently deemed more equal than others. A similar dynamic destroyed AskAndy (another story for another time).

    So, yes, I liked it better when a vendor (be it a store manager or tailor or craftsmen of whatever sort) knew that it was a little dangerous to set foot here, because he'd be taken to task and perhaps forced to provide better service and better products. Now, we treat them like gods whose presence we should be grateful for. And the forum sucks. Coincidence?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  5. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    I have to do a grand edit after seeing Foo's join date. I've been here almost 6 years, not 10. Somehow I was thinking 3/2003 in lieu of 3/2007. My apologies.
     
  6. jischwar

    jischwar Well-Known Member

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    I had been looking at old posts more recently, but will start paying more attention to who had been posting. This has been very insightful to say the least.
     
  7. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    sigh
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Let's not get things twisted.

    Actually, you guys can complain about vendors all you want, and many do. Unlike Andy, we have a very strict policy of not endorsing any vendor for any type of compensation, in cash or in kind. Advertisers pay for a space, and they have control over their affiliate threads, and that's it.

    The original content is something that members asked for, and that we put out, at considerable expense. If you don't enjoy it, we would be happy to save ourselves lots and lots of cash.
     
  9. acidboy

    acidboy Senior member

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    count me in as one who likes the original content..
     
  10. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I like the original content too. But not as a substitute for the conversation that brought me here. There are all sorts of blogs and sites and Tumblrs that have interesting content that I don't read. Very hard to distinguish yourself in that arena these days.

    No reason we can't have both, but I think the forum portion of the forum is still the lifeblood of the forum.
     
  11. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not twisting things.

    Whether you intended it or not, issuing original content and encouraging vendor participation distinguishes certain voices above others. This naturally changes discussion on the forum. You can manage a marketplace in which participants freely exchange and value information, or you can be a provider of information yourself. The latter pollutes the former and I think it's sensible for any forum's management to think hard about the right balance. AskAndy changed for the worse, not because Andy endorsed Kabbaz, but because Kabbaz was simultaneously running the forum and acting as a chief contributor.

    As for the expense of creating original content: I really don't know why you take it on when the best original content on the forum has historically been provided by members themselves, for free. Many of those contributors have voiced concerns about how the forum has changed and have since ceased participating. Perhaps taking their concerns seriously would have been cheaper for you in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  12. x26

    x26 Senior member

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    Great Post--I agree!! :bigstar:
     
  13. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    I agree with this completely. You should hear me at any meetings. If you believe nothing else I say, believe that I am all about the community. It's not perfect, but it's always the central focus of my energies.
     
  14. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Thanks. That's an interesting perspective on Andy's forum. fwiw, I contribute very little in the way of content. I fund people who are much more knowledgeable and are better writers, to produce content, on topics (like Neapolitan tailors) that readers have asked for. While our strength is in our community, we can't always find people who have the means to travel to Naples, and the desire to report back (though some do, thanks!). So we "help" that content get made. For other contributors, I see my job as facilitating their content to be found by other members.

    As for addressing concerns, I regularly solicit opinions from a lot of our oldest and most respected users, from PSG to Manton to Itsstillmatt (formerly Iammatt). I realize that not everyone shares the same concerns, nor sees the same problems, nor the same solutions, and j and I try to make the best judgements we can with all the input we are given, and also with our own vision in mind. It's a constant work in progress.
     

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