Traveling tailor question

[clothingfun]

I would really appreciate some feedback from those with the experience of using a traveling tailor. I have always wanted a Savile Row suit and nowadays it fits in the budget. Me traveling to London multiple times for fittings simply isn’t feasible. Therefore I plan on making an appointment for a trunk show. In fact I’m very certain of which tailoring house I’ll be contacting but will keep it to myself for now as I’m looking for unbiased opinions.

Spending this kind of money for services based across the Atlantic obviously has me a little apprehensive. I’m sure there are guys here that have used trunk shows and would appreciate hearing about your experiences both good and bad. Preferably from those who have Savile Row traveling tailor experiences but any traveling tailor experiences are fine. I’m curious what to expect and if in your opinions this really works out well. Thanks in advance.

 

[dieworkwear]

I use traveling tailors. I'd say the quality of the work depends on the company. It sounds tautological that way -- that is, you'll get a good garment from a good tailoring house, and a bad garment from a bad tailoring house. That can sound unhelpful at first, but I think it just speaks to how the experience is very dependent on the company, not whether they travel.

I'm kind of iffy about truisms, but very, very broadly speaking, I would say:

1. I think there's little correlation anymore between the prestige and the quality of the tailoring. Some of the best companies I've worked with are small; some of the worst companies I've worked with are big. I don't think bespoke customers are immune to the allure of prestige. I've gone to certain companies because they had big names, storied histories, and famous clients. And then I got crappy service and products from them. I think there was maybe a time when someone could go to a storied tailoring company and feel assured they were going to get a quality garment based off the company's reputation, but I don't think that's the case anymore. You have to be a bit more discerning.

2. It helps to have the cutter at your fitting. I wouldn't say this is a hard rule, but I've found it to be a good one. At a tailoring company, there are two sides to the shop. The "front of the house" is the sales staff. Sometimes these people are good for style advice. The "back of the house" are the cutters and tailors. If you were working with a local operation, you may be dealing with both -- a salesperson who helps fit you and gives you advice on fabrics/ style details. Then the cutter who's there to do the technical work of fitting a garment.

Some traveling operations, however, only travel with a salesperson. The cutter is often some older gentleman who stays back in the home country, cuts fabric based on the sales person's measurements (sometimes supplemented with photos). Sometimes this works out, but sometimes it doesn't. Every once in a while, a tailor on this board like Despos will give an explanation of why something doesn't look right, and I'm amazed at the technical expertise. You change one thing, and then this other thing is affected or whatever. This is the sort of thing that fitters don't always know -- they may get the basics, like front-back balance or shortening the sleeves. But if you have a more complicated issue, I would much prefer a cutter be present the fittings.

If you're new to custom tailoring, it can be hard to know whether the person you're interacting with is a salesperson or cutter. Everyone these days calls themselves a tailor, even if they don't sew or cut (they may just be a salesperson with a measuring tape draped around their neck). I would ask the person directly: is my cutter going to be at my fittings? If the answer is no, I would be careful about going with that operation.

3. I'd also be wary of any operation that's too affordable. Traveling operations are unique in that the company has to keep coming out to you. And if it's a small firm, they may not be able to weather the ebbs and flows of orders. If ten guys come out for the first trunk show, that tailor is committed to coming back for those ten orders. But what if he only got seven orders? Is he banking on three orders popping out of nowhere on the second trunk show? Does he have enough profit margin to be able to eat the cost of coming back? Traveling is expensive and tiring.

Big SR firms don't care about this stuff because their costs are ridiculously high and they have a huge number of orders. So if a few clients drop out of a city, no big deal. But with very affordable firms, time and time again, you see smaller companies drop off the map, leaving clients holding the bag. A good tailoring operation isn't just one that can make a good product, it's one that can sustain a business. Think about whether that tailor can come back and if you can continue to have a relationship with him or her. The nature of traveling operations means that you'll get your garment a year -- sometimes three years -- later, depending on how often they visit (most are within a year, but with A&S, for example, who only visits certain cities once a year, you could get it three years later). That's well beyond the protection period a credit card gives you, so you have to protect yourself and choose a good firm.

If you can find a store that backs a tailor, all the better, since they're putting their reputation on the line. But few traveling operations go through stores anymore.

 

[clothingfun]

I use traveling tailors. I'd say the quality of the work depends on the company. It sounds tautological that way -- that is, you'll get a good garment from a good tailoring house, and a bad garment from a bad tailoring house. That can sound unhelpful at first, but I think it just speaks to how the experience is very dependent on the company, not whether they travel.

I'm kind of iffy about truisms, but very, very broadly speaking, I would say:

1. I think there's little correlation anymore between the prestige and the quality of the tailoring. Some of the best companies I've worked with are small; some of the worst companies I've worked with are big. I don't think bespoke customers are immune to the allure of prestige. I've gone to certain companies because they had big names, storied histories, and famous clients. And then I got crappy service and products from them. I think there was maybe a time when someone could go to a storied tailoring company and feel assured they were going to get a quality garment based off the company's reputation, but I don't think that's the case anymore. You have to be a bit more discerning.

2. It helps to have the cutter at your fitting. I wouldn't say this is a hard rule, but I've found it to be a good one. At a tailoring company, there are two sides to the shop. The "front of the house" is the sales staff. Sometimes these people are good for style advice. The "back of the house" are the cutters and tailors. If you were working with a local operation, you may be dealing with both -- a salesperson who helps fit you and gives you advice on fabrics/ style details. Then the cutter who's there to do the technical work of fitting a garment.

Some traveling operations, however, only travel with a salesperson. The cutter is often some older gentleman who stays back in the home country, cuts fabric based on the sales person's measurements (sometimes supplemented with photos). Sometimes this works out, but sometimes it doesn't. Every once in a while, a tailor on this board like Despos will give an explanation of why something doesn't look right, and I'm amazed at the technical expertise. You change one thing, and then this other thing is affected or whatever. This is the sort of thing that fitters don't always know -- they may get the basics, like front-back balance or shortening the sleeves. But if you have a more complicated issue, I would much prefer a cutter be present the fittings.

If you're new to custom tailoring, it can be hard to know whether the person you're interacting with is a salesperson or cutter. Everyone these days calls themselves a tailor, even if they don't sew or cut (they may just be a salesperson with a measuring tape draped around their neck). I would ask the person directly: is my cutter going to be at my fittings? If the answer is no, I would be careful about going with that operation.

3. I'd also be wary of any operation that's too affordable. Traveling operations are unique in that the company has to keep coming out to you. And if it's a small firm, they may not be able to weather the ebbs and flows of orders. If ten guys come out for the first trunk show, that tailor is committed to coming back for those ten orders. But what if he only got seven orders? Is he banking on three orders popping out of nowhere on the second trunk show? Does he have enough profit margin to be able to eat the cost of coming back? Traveling is expensive and tiring.

Big SR firms don't care about this stuff because their costs are ridiculously high and they have a huge number of orders. So if a few clients drop out of a city, no big deal. But with very affordable firms, time and time again, you see smaller companies drop off the map, leaving clients holding the bag. A good tailoring operation isn't just one that can make a good product, it's one that can sustain a business. Think about whether that tailor can come back and if you can continue to have a relationship with him or her. The nature of traveling operations means that you'll get your garment a year -- sometimes three years -- later, depending on how often they visit (most are within a year, but with A&S, for example, who only visits certain cities once a year, you could get it three years later). That's well beyond the protection period a credit card gives you, so you have to protect yourself and choose a good firm.

If you can find a store that backs a tailor, all the better, since they're putting their reputation on the line. But few traveling operations go through stores anymore.

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed reply. Based on your feedback it seems like I’m on the right track with this as I’m already aware of most of what you graciously took the time to point out.

Actually I’m not new to bespoke clothing. In fact I have several garments made by a very talented local tailor who runs a small shop with two employees where everything is done in house. Not to mention that by bespoke standards the prices are relatively reasonable. I will be back for more and have no reason to look elsewhere because I’m a very satisfied customer. It’s merely the simple reason that the romance and history of a Savile Row suit has always been a bucket list item and I have reached a point in life now where it fits the budget.

The house I’m leaning towards has an excellent reputation and I will be measured by and working directly with the senior cutter so I should be fine. I’m just curious to hear about the experiences of others such as yourself to help me decide if this is truly worth pursuing. Once again a big thank you for your help.

 

[Thomson]

I use traveling tailors. I'd say the quality of the work depends on the company. It sounds tautological that way -- that is, you'll get a good garment from a good tailoring house, and a bad garment from a bad tailoring house. That can sound unhelpful at first, but I think it just speaks to how the experience is very dependent on the company, not whether they travel.

I'm kind of iffy about truisms, but very, very broadly speaking, I would say:

1. I think there's little correlation anymore between the prestige and the quality of the tailoring. Some of the best companies I've worked with are small; some of the worst companies I've worked with are big. I don't think bespoke customers are immune to the allure of prestige. I've gone to certain companies because they had big names, storied histories, and famous clients. And then I got crappy service and products from them. I think there was maybe a time when someone could go to a storied tailoring company and feel assured they were going to get a quality garment based off the company's reputation, but I don't think that's the case anymore. You have to be a bit more discerning.

2. It helps to have the cutter at your fitting. I wouldn't say this is a hard rule, but I've found it to be a good one. At a tailoring company, there are two sides to the shop. The "front of the house" is the sales staff. Sometimes these people are good for style advice. The "back of the house" are the cutters and tailors. If you were working with a local operation, you may be dealing with both -- a salesperson who helps fit you and gives you advice on fabrics/ style details. Then the cutter who's there to do the technical work of fitting a garment.

Some traveling operations, however, only travel with a salesperson. The cutter is often some older gentleman who stays back in the home country, cuts fabric based on the sales person's measurements (sometimes supplemented with photos). Sometimes this works out, but sometimes it doesn't. Every once in a while, a tailor on this board like Despos will give an explanation of why something doesn't look right, and I'm amazed at the technical expertise. You change one thing, and then this other thing is affected or whatever. This is the sort of thing that fitters don't always know -- they may get the basics, like front-back balance or shortening the sleeves. But if you have a more complicated issue, I would much prefer a cutter be present the fittings.

If you're new to custom tailoring, it can be hard to know whether the person you're interacting with is a salesperson or cutter. Everyone these days calls themselves a tailor, even if they don't sew or cut (they may just be a salesperson with a measuring tape draped around their neck). I would ask the person directly: is my cutter going to be at my fittings? If the answer is no, I would be careful about going with that operation.

3. I'd also be wary of any operation that's too affordable. Traveling operations are unique in that the company has to keep coming out to you. And if it's a small firm, they may not be able to weather the ebbs and flows of orders. If ten guys come out for the first trunk show, that tailor is committed to coming back for those ten orders. But what if he only got seven orders? Is he banking on three orders popping out of nowhere on the second trunk show? Does he have enough profit margin to be able to eat the cost of coming back? Traveling is expensive and tiring.

Big SR firms don't care about this stuff because their costs are ridiculously high and they have a huge number of orders. So if a few clients drop out of a city, no big deal. But with very affordable firms, time and time again, you see smaller companies drop off the map, leaving clients holding the bag. A good tailoring operation isn't just one that can make a good product, it's one that can sustain a business. Think about whether that tailor can come back and if you can.

I use traveling tailors. I'd say the quality of the work depends on the company. It sounds tautological that way -- that is, you'll get a good garment from a good tailoring house, and a bad garment from a bad tailoring house. That can sound unhelpful at first, but I think it just speaks to how the experience is very dependent on the company, not whether they travel.

I'm kind of iffy about truisms, but very, very broadly speaking, I would say:

1. I think there's little correlation anymore between the prestige and the quality of the tailoring. Some of the best companies I've worked with are small; some of the worst companies I've worked with are big. I don't think bespoke customers are immune to the allure of prestige. I've gone to certain companies because they had big names, storied histories, and famous clients. And then I got crappy service and products from them. I think there was maybe a time when someone could go to a storied tailoring company and feel assured they were going to get a quality garment based off the company's reputation, but I don't think that's the case anymore. You have to be a bit more discerning.

2. It helps to have the cutter at your fitting. I wouldn't say this is a hard rule, but I've found it to be a good one. At a tailoring company, there are two sides to the shop. The "front of the house" is the sales staff. Sometimes these people are good for style advice. The "back of the house" are the cutters and tailors. If you were working with a local operation, you may be dealing with both -- a salesperson who helps fit you and gives you advice on fabrics/ style details. Then the cutter who's there to do the technical work of fitting a garment.

Some traveling operations, however, only travel with a salesperson. The cutter is often some older gentleman who stays back in the home country, cuts fabric based on the sales person's measurements (sometimes supplemented with photos). Sometimes this works out, but sometimes it doesn't. Every once in a while, a tailor on this board like Despos will give an explanation of why something doesn't look right, and I'm amazed at the technical expertise. You change one thing, and then this other thing is affected or whatever. This is the sort of thing that fitters don't always know -- they may get the basics, like front-back balance or shortening the sleeves. But if you have a more complicated issue, I would much prefer a cutter be present the fittings.

If you're new to custom tailoring, it can be hard to know whether the person you're interacting with is a salesperson or cutter. Everyone these days calls themselves a tailor, even if they don't sew or cut (they may just be a salesperson with a measuring tape draped around their neck). I would ask the person directly: is my cutter going to be at my fittings? If the answer is no, I would be careful about going with that operation.

3. I'd also be wary of any operation that's too affordable. Traveling operations are unique in that the company has to keep coming out to you. And if it's a small firm, they may not be able to weather the ebbs and flows of orders. If ten guys come out for the first trunk show, that tailor is committed to coming back for those ten orders. But what if he only got seven orders? Is he banking on three orders popping out of nowhere on the second trunk show? Does he have enough profit margin to be able to eat the cost of coming back? Traveling is expensive and tiring.

Big SR firms don't care about this stuff because their costs are ridiculously high and they have a huge number of orders. So if a few clients drop out of a city, no big deal. But with very affordable firms, time and time again, you see smaller companies drop off the map, leaving clients holding the bag. A good tailoring operation isn't just one that can make a good product, it's one that can sustain a business. Think about whether that tailor can come back and if you can continue to have a relationship with him or her. The nature of traveling operations means that you'll get your garment a year -- sometimes three years -- later, depending on how often they visit (most are within a year, but with A&S, for example, who only visits certain cities once a year, you could get it three years later). That's well beyond the protection period a credit card gives you, so you have to protect yourself and choose a good firm.

If you can find a store that backs a tailor, all the better, since they're putting their reputation on the line. But few traveling operations go through stores anymore.

It is interesting how many things are actually pretty common sense - but you still need to have the experience to draw the conclusions. This was a very useful and helpful insight.

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed reply. Based on your feedback it seems like I’m on the right track with this as I’m already aware of most of what you graciously took the time to point out.

Actually I’m not new to bespoke clothing. In fact I have several garments made by a very talented local tailor who runs a small shop with two employees where everything is done in house. Not to mention that by bespoke standards the prices are relatively reasonable. I will be back for more and have no reason to look elsewhere because I’m a very satisfied customer. It’s merely the simple reason that the romance and history of a Savile Row suit has always been a bucket list item and I have reached a point in life now where it fits the budget.

The house I’m leaning towards has an excellent reputation and I will be measured by and working directly with the senior cutter so I should be fine. I’m just curious to hear about the experiences of others such as yourself to help me decide if this is truly worth pursuing. Once again a big thank you for your help.

If you've always dreamt of having an SR suit and can afford one, I don't think anyone can stop you from scratching that itch. I definitely know the feeling. For years, I dreamt of having something from A&S and Cleverley, and a few years ago, finally went out and commissioned some things. The people there are perfectly nice, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't let down by the product. I found my commissions from Steed and Nicholas Templeman to be much better, and they're micro-sized businesses compared to those bigger names. I've also heard Huntsman is in disarray, although I don't have any direct experience.

I don't really get it, to be honest. With all the investment and capital, you'd think these places would be able to offer the best things in the world. But in my time talking to various people who work in and around the custom tailoring and shoemaking operations in London and Italy, I think bigger, more storied operations just work a little closer to brands. Not that there's anything wrong with brands, but there's a different modus operandi, I think.

The standard narrative about all this stuff is that costs are skyrocketing in London, both with rents and labor. Brands are being forced to move into RTW and use bespoke as a halo product. Some of the big firms also have deep investments which demand a certain return on capital. And then there's the rumor mill about mismanagement (who knows what's really going on unless you're actually behind the scenes). Supposedly, if you want that Huntsman silhouette, Richard Anderson is a better choice. I haven't tried either, so can't say. I will say if you like that old A&S cut, I think Edwin Deboise does that style better than the current A&S, which is a bit less drapey and more modernized. Davide Taub at Gieves seems to do really good work (I love that he's a bit more open minded about tailoring, although I can't afford G&H prices).

I would say, if you're going to use an SR traveling operation, see if you can track down a current customer (ideally one with a bit of experience with bespoke) and privately ask for their opinion. For a variety of reasons, bespoke customers are often perfectly happy to crow about their good experiences online, but they're shy about sharing bad experiences. You have to talk to them privately to get that. And be sure you're talking to someone who's gotten a pattern drafted by the same cutter who will draft your pattern. Big tailoring houses will have a lot more hands laying on a garment. So, if you're talking to an A&S customer from the 70s, he probably had his pattern drafted by a totally different person (someone who may have even passed away). If you're talking to someone who started using A&S in, say, 2010, that person may also have gotten his pattern drafted by a different person. These will be two differnet coats, like two personal interpretations on a signature dish (or here, house style).

You can't always find out who will be your coatmaker, but you should be able to know who will be your cutter. See if you can find first-hand accounts of people who have had a pattern drafted by that person. An A&S coat drafted by X cutter from the 70s will be a different garment from an A&S coat drafted by Y person from the 80s, and so forth. It's easy online for people to talk about these big names like they've stayed the same throughout the years (e.g. the "A&S cut" or the "Huntsman cut"), but these things vary greatly depending on the people inside these institutions. If you've worked at a similar institution (say research), you know what I mean. A research center may have a storied history, but then you put a new team in there ten years later and they may produce a different quality of work. This, I've found, is ever more important as the pool for skilled labor in this trade is shrinking.

 

[clothingfun]

If you've always dreamt of having an SR suit and can afford one, I don't think anyone can stop you from scratching that itch. I definitely know the feeling. For years, I dreamt of having something from A&S and Cleverley, and a few years ago, finally went out and commissioned some things. The people there are perfectly nice, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't let down by the product. I found my commissions from Steed and Nicholas Templeman to be much better, and they're micro-sized businesses compared to those bigger names. I've also heard Huntsman is in disarray, although I don't have any direct experience.

I don't really get it, to be honest. With all the investment and capital, you'd think these places would be able to offer the best things in the world. But in my time talking to various people who work in and around the custom tailoring and shoemaking operations in London and Italy, I think bigger, more storied operations just work a little closer to brands. Not that there's anything wrong with brands, but there's a different modus operandi, I think.

The standard narrative about all this stuff is that costs are skyrocketing in London, both with rents and labor. Brands are being forced to move into RTW and use bespoke as a halo product. Some of the big firms also have deep investments which demand a certain return on capital. And then there's the rumor mill about mismanagement (who knows what's really going on unless you're actually behind the scenes). Supposedly, if you want that Huntsman silhouette, Richard Anderson is a better choice. I haven't tried either, so can't say. I will say if you like that old A&S cut, I think Edwin Deboise does that style better than the current A&S, which is a bit less drapey and more modernized. Davide Taub at Gieves seems to do really good work (I love that he's a bit more open minded about tailoring, although I can't afford G&H prices).

I would say, if you're going to use an SR traveling operation, see if you can track down a current customer (ideally one with a bit of experience with bespoke) and privately ask for their opinion. For a variety of reasons, bespoke customers are often perfectly happy to crow about their good experiences online, but they're shy about sharing bad experiences. You have to talk to them privately to get that. And be sure you're talking to someone who's gotten a pattern drafted by the same cutter who will draft your pattern. Big tailoring houses will have a lot more hands laying on a garment. So, if you're talking to an A&S customer from the 70s, he probably had his pattern drafted by a totally different person (someone who may have even passed away). If you're talking to someone who started using A&S in, say, 2010, that person may also have gotten his pattern drafted by a different person. These will be two differnet coats, like two personal interpretations on a signature dish (or here, house style).

You can't always find out who will be your coatmaker, but you should be able to know who will be your cutter. See if you can find first-hand accounts of people who have had a pattern drafted by that person. An A&S coat drafted by X cutter from the 70s will be a different garment from an A&S coat drafted by Y person from the 80s, and so forth. It's easy online for people to talk about these big names like they've stayed the same throughout the years (e.g. the "A&S cut" or the "Huntsman cut"), but these things vary greatly depending on the people inside these institutions. If you've worked at a similar institution (say research), you know what I mean. A research center may have a storied history, but then you put a new team in there ten years later and they may produce a different quality of work. This, I've found, is ever more important as the pool for skilled labor in this trade is shrinking.

I wanted to stop in briefly and say thank you for another detailed and informative post. Talking in person to an existing Savile Row customer is an excellent idea. Unfortunately I don’t know any and probably never will. Hence, my post hoping someone would weigh in. I have also heard the same thing about sky high rents on “The Row.” I forget where I read it but I remember a customer writing “I didn’t pay the tailor I paid the landlord.”

That said, the house I had my eye on was Dege and Skinner. I very recently had a delightful conversation with their head cutter. He answered all my questions and really made me feel comfortable. I am in the process of making an appointment for the next time they are in the U.S. Perhaps in the future I’ll let you know how things turn out. Once again thanks for taking the time to provide your thoughts.

 

[dieworkwear]

I wanted to stop in briefly and say thank you for another detailed and informative post. Talking in person to an existing Savile Row customer is an excellent idea. Unfortunately I don’t know any and probably never will. Hence, my post hoping someone would weigh in. I have also heard the same thing about sky high rents on “The Row.” I forget where I read it but I remember a customer writing “I didn’t pay the tailor I paid the landlord.”

That said, the house I had my eye on was Dege and Skinner. I very recently had a delightful conversation with their head cutter. He answered all my questions and really made me feel comfortable. I am in the process of making an appointment for the next time they are in the U.S. Perhaps in the future I’ll let you know how things turn out. Once again thanks for taking the time to provide your thoughts.

Let us know how it turns out! There aren't many first-hand accounts of SR tailoring, so always good to hear about someone's experience.

 

[Texasmade]

I used Huntsman recently when they started coming to Houston. When I scheduled my appointment, I was told who my cutter was and he was there for every fitting. Suit is really nice, service was great, people were friendly, but at that price point I wasn't wowed by the suit. It still fits better than any other suit I own (a few Brooks Brothers 1818 and a couple of Tom Ford suits) and people always comment how great it looks though. Right now I'm having a suit made by Cifonelli and flying to NYC this weekend to hopefully have my last fitting and go to the finishing stage.

I'll say one of the good things about using a Huntsman, Steed, or other fairly well known tailor is the fact that they have a pretty set schedule and will come to your city multiple times a year. This saves quite a bit on travel costs. For instance, every time I travel to NYC, I spend at least $1000 on airfare and hotel for a weekend which adds to the cost. Once I add in uber and food, I'm looking at another $300-$500 in costs. I decided to try Cifonelli even though he doesn't travel to Houston because I was going to Paris for vacation and was going to be in NYC at his next trunk show already so those travel costs were sunk costs for me and not really adding additional costs to the suit.

OP- I also have some bespoke John Lobb Paris shoes, and I've posted about my experience in the JL thread. Feel free to ask about my experience using Huntsman or JL.

 

[clothingfun]

I used Huntsman recently when they started coming to Houston. When I scheduled my appointment, I was told who my cutter was and he was there for every fitting. Suit is really nice, service was great, people were friendly, but at that price point I wasn't wowed by the suit. It still fits better than any other suit I own (a few Brooks Brothers 1818 and a couple of Tom Ford suits) and people always comment how great it looks though. Right now I'm having a suit made by Cifonelli and flying to NYC this weekend to hopefully have my last fitting and go to the finishing stage.

I'll say one of the good things about using a Huntsman, Steed, or other fairly well known tailor is the fact that they have a pretty set schedule and will come to your city multiple times a year. This saves quite a bit on travel costs. For instance, every time I travel to NYC, I spend at least $1000 on airfare and hotel for a weekend which adds to the cost. Once I add in uber and food, I'm looking at another $300-$500 in costs. I decided to try Cifonelli even though he doesn't travel to Houston because I was going to Paris for vacation and was going to be in NYC at his next trunk show already so those travel costs were sunk costs for me and not really adding additional costs to the suit.

OP- I also have some bespoke John Lobb Paris shoes, and I've posted about my experience in the JL thread. Feel free to ask about my experience using Huntsman or JL.

Thank you sir. PM sent.

 

[bdavro23]

I used Huntsman recently when they started coming to Houston. When I scheduled my appointment, I was told who my cutter was and he was there for every fitting. Suit is really nice, service was great, people were friendly, but at that price point I wasn't wowed by the suit. It still fits better than any other suit I own (a few Brooks Brothers 1818 and a couple of Tom Ford suits) and people always comment how great it looks though. Right now I'm having a suit made by Cifonelli and flying to NYC this weekend to hopefully have my last fitting and go to the finishing stage.

I'll say one of the good things about using a Huntsman, Steed, or other fairly well known tailor is the fact that they have a pretty set schedule and will come to your city multiple times a year. This saves quite a bit on travel costs. For instance, every time I travel to NYC, I spend at least $1000 on airfare and hotel for a weekend which adds to the cost. Once I add in uber and food, I'm looking at another $300-$500 in costs. I decided to try Cifonelli even though he doesn't travel to Houston because I was going to Paris for vacation and was going to be in NYC at his next trunk show already so those travel costs were sunk costs for me and not really adding additional costs to the suit.

OP- I also have some bespoke John Lobb Paris shoes, and I've posted about my experience in the JL thread. Feel free to ask about my experience using Huntsman or JL.

You bring up a really good point about your traveling costs. For that much money, you could actually get a pretty nice MTM suit. I realize thats probably not what you are looking for and part of buying a bespoke suit is the experience, but its a big additional expense you are committing to and adds to the overall cost/ value proposition.

Please keep us updated on your Cifonelli progress. I am a big fain of French tailoring and love the Cifonellis shape. Good luck!

 

[Texasmade]

You bring up a really good point about your traveling costs. For that much money, you could actually get a pretty nice MTM suit. I realize thats probably not what you are looking for and part of buying a bespoke suit is the experience, but its a big additional expense you are committing to and adds to the overall cost/ value proposition.

Please keep us updated on your Cifonelli progress. I am a big fain of French tailoring and love the Cifonellis shape. Good luck!

Thanks. I’ve posted my prior fitting with Cifonelli in the bespoke projects thread and will update there.

 

[lordsuperb]

Thanks. I’ve posted my prior fitting with Cifonelli in the bespoke projects thread and will update there.

Well it looks like cifonelli and all the heavy hitters from Saville row are starting to visit DC. I just want to know why they are so expensive?

 

[Texasmade]

Rent. Having a shop in the 8th arrondissement of Paris or Mayfair London isn't cheap.

 

[lordsuperb]

I can’t keep up with the price increases.

 

[blindlemonjeff]

If you've always dreamt of having an SR suit and can afford one, I don't think anyone can stop you from scratching that itch. I definitely know the feeling. For years, I dreamt of having something from A&S and Cleverley, and a few years ago, finally went out and commissioned some things. The people there are perfectly nice, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't let down by the product. I found my commissions from Steed and Nicholas Templeman to be much better, and they're micro-sized businesses compared to those bigger names. I've also heard Huntsman is in disarray, although I don't have any direct experience.

I don't really get it, to be honest. With all the investment and capital, you'd think these places would be able to offer the best things in the world. But in my time talking to various people who work in and around the custom tailoring and shoemaking operations in London and Italy, I think bigger, more storied operations just work a little closer to brands. Not that there's anything wrong with brands, but there's a different modus operandi, I think.

The standard narrative about all this stuff is that costs are skyrocketing in London, both with rents and labor. Brands are being forced to move into RTW and use bespoke as a halo product. Some of the big firms also have deep investments which demand a certain return on capital. And then there's the rumor mill about mismanagement (who knows what's really going on unless you're actually behind the scenes). Supposedly, if you want that Huntsman silhouette, Richard Anderson is a better choice. I haven't tried either, so can't say. I will say if you like that old A&S cut, I think Edwin Deboise does that style better than the current A&S, which is a bit less drapey and more modernized. Davide Taub at Gieves seems to do really good work (I love that he's a bit more open minded about tailoring, although I can't afford G&H prices).

I would say, if you're going to use an SR traveling operation, see if you can track down a current customer (ideally one with a bit of experience with bespoke) and privately ask for their opinion. For a variety of reasons, bespoke customers are often perfectly happy to crow about their good experiences online, but they're shy about sharing bad experiences. You have to talk to them privately to get that. And be sure you're talking to someone who's gotten a pattern drafted by the same cutter who will draft your pattern. Big tailoring houses will have a lot more hands laying on a garment. So, if you're talking to an A&S customer from the 70s, he probably had his pattern drafted by a totally different person (someone who may have even passed away). If you're talking to someone who started using A&S in, say, 2010, that person may also have gotten his pattern drafted by a different person. These will be two differnet coats, like two personal interpretations on a signature dish (or here, house style).

You can't always find out who will be your coatmaker, but you should be able to know who will be your cutter. See if you can find first-hand accounts of people who have had a pattern drafted by that person. An A&S coat drafted by X cutter from the 70s will be a different garment from an A&S coat drafted by Y person from the 80s, and so forth. It's easy online for people to talk about these big names like they've stayed the same throughout the years (e.g. the "A&S cut" or the "Huntsman cut"), but these things vary greatly depending on the people inside these institutions. If you've worked at a similar institution (say research), you know what I mean. A research center may have a storied history, but then you put a new team in there ten years later and they may produce a different quality of work. This, I've found, is ever more important as the pool for skilled labor in this trade is shrinking.

Derek, how recently did you get stuff made with Steed? Steed now seems to be English Cut, English Cut now seems to be Redmayne, and I'm finding it very hard to keep up given that so much of the suit is dependent on the person vs the house.