Toyo Enterprise Thread - Modern Vintage and Reproduction of Heritage (Buzz Rickson's, Sugar Cane, Sun Surf, Whitesville, Tailor Toyo, and More)

[XWT]

Aw man all the good stuff—the sweatshirt I wear once a week when it's cold enough, just such a crowdpleaser and so much more satisfying to wear than I ever thought a sweatshirt could be.

I love mine as well. Wear it a lot during the long ass Canadian winter. Sometimes think about buying one in the size below, to have it be shorter an easier to layer with the short jackets I wear a lot.

What's different about the 45 model, less tapered? I am very glad I sized up on the chinos and hoping they don't shrink much in the waist after a wash.

They didn't really shrink in the waist, but they're not giving any sign of streching out. The 45 model has a very straight leg, the leg opening is extremely wide at around 10.5 inches.

I've just been cuffing mine a crazy amount due to the long inseam (I think I have to roll them like 6 or 7 times to get the right length), I like that it adds a lot of weight to the bottom so that they hang very straight but the cuff is so thick it might look a little silly. Apparently most WW2 soldiers got their military chinos tailored (forgot where I read that), but I probably wouldn't wear them unrolled anyway so likely won't touch them for now.

That's kind of why I hemmed them, but to be truthful a different model would have worked better for me. I went with the 45 because the green tint in the khaki fabric tickled my fancy. In the end I realize that I chose the wrong model for me.

How's the chambray? I was going back and forth on it but ended up getting a Studio D'Artisan one instead, which I love, but I can never have too many chambrays.

According to me it's the platonic ideal in term of Chambray shirts. It's the only one I wear anymore. I have chambrays by EG and Beams + that I just completely stopped wearing. I also have a TCB chambray shirt, but it's a western cut and the reason I don't wear it is because of sizing.

 

[XWT]

Reading this thread got me thinking about my Buzz Rickson's kit so I wore the chambray shirt and chinos today:

Looking good! Is that the 42 chino?

 

[Gerry Nelson]

Looking good! Is that the 42 chino?

Thank you. These are the Original Spec chinos. The '45 and '42 models have metal buttons. The buttons on this are plastic.

 

[Pulpo]

Reading this thread got me thinking about my Buzz Rickson's kit so I wore the chambray shirt and chinos today:

FULL RICKSON'S! YES!!!

Maybe it's the lighting, but I didn't realize their chambray was that kind of more oceanic slightly lighter blue, looks awesome! Love the fit on those chinos. I realized mine are actually the "slimmer fit" version, which lacks some of the drama of your pair —seeing these I would not hesitate to go for that model!

I love mine as well. Wear it a lot during the long ass Canadian winter. Sometimes think about buying one in the size below, to have it be shorter an easier to layer with the short jackets I wear a lot.



They didn't really shrink in the waist, but they're not giving any sign of streching out. The 45 model has a very straight leg, the leg opening is extremely wide at around 10.5 inches.



That's kind of why I hemmed them, but to be truthful a different model would have worked better for me. I went with the 45 because the green tint in the khaki fabric tickled my fancy. In the end I realize that I chose the wrong model for me.



According to me it's the platonic ideal in term of Chambray shirts. It's the only one I wear anymore. I have chambrays by EG and Beams + that I just completely stopped wearing. I also have a TCB chambray shirt, but it's a western cut and the reason I don't wear it is because of sizing.

Damn that is a strong rec for the chambray. I've had an old RL one for 10+ years that is starting to dissolve so I think I can justify a replacement.

Do you guys have any experience with the Buzz Rickson Mil-Spec Basketball Sneakers? I'm likely just brainwashed, but I haven't been able to get these olive ones out of my head since I first saw them. Only thing is I don't really wear sneakers that often (only have one pair of white PF Flyers high tops), and I kind of feel like they can't be that much more sturdy than a pair of Chuck's in the long run. But maybe they are insanely far superior?? Also these would go great with the MA-1 I think?? Gah why did I make this thread, I'm going to bankrupt myself lol.

 

[XWT]

I’m adamant that chambray looks and feel exactly how a chambray workshirt should look and feel like. I’m curious what Gerry thinks of it given that he’s much more experienced than I am regarding the clothing hobby.

At that price I found nothing that compared. You’re going to want the same size as your SC flannel. It’s shorter though. I mostly wear mine tucked in with slim jeans an one of my numerous light jackets.

 

[Gerry Nelson]

I’m adamant that chambray looks and feel exactly how a chambray workshirt should look and feel like. I’m curious what Gerry thinks of it given that he’s much more experienced than I am regarding the clothing hobby.

At that price I found nothing that compared. You’re going to want the same size as your SC flannel. It’s shorter though. I mostly wear mine tucked in with slim jeans an one of my numerous light jackets.

I agree with you. I think it's great value.

I've never had experience with the sneakers but I'm thinking about those and the MA-1 after seeing your post!

 

[Pulpo]

I agree with you. I think it's great value.

I've never had experience with the sneakers but I'm thinking about those and the MA-1 after seeing your post!

Man the MA-1, like I said in the post it's the thing that got me into this world 3 years ago. It really is something to behold, photos do not do it justice.

It is VERY warm, I can wear it in low 50s temps with just a t-shirt, but it's most comfortable at 40 and below. Part of me does wish I went for the standard olive version just because it goes better with my wardrobe, but the romance and story behind the black version was just too much for me to pass up—and it is sort of a "warm" black if that makes any sense, so not as severe as I might have assumed.

There is also the L-2B, which should be much lighter—I don't love the epaulets on the William Gibson and other versions, but I've just seen there's also a Sage "H-type" variant without them, hmmmm. Not sure the difference in the finer details though, I'm not much of a military historian, I just like cool stuff lol.

 

[Superb0bo]

i got a Buzz chambray shirt (and two pairs of chinos, although i gave my dad, who's in his 70s, one of the pairs, suits him), and while the quality is great, i find it perhaps 5 inches too short in the body. A shirt like that really should have long tails.

 

[XWT]

i got a Buzz chambray shirt (and two pairs of chinos, although i gave my dad, who's in his 70s, one of the pairs, suits him), and while the quality is great, i find it perhaps 5 inches too short in the body. A shirt like that really should have long tails.

I assume it has everything to do with your body type and how much of a rise your pants have. I wear mid-to-high waisted pants and my torso isn't particularily long. I'm also on the bigger end of the size spectrum for BR, so while I'd take an inch or 2 longer to secure it a bit better, 5 more wouldn't look right at all to me. If I was 2 inches taller and 40 pounds leaner, I would wear a M instead of an XL and I probably would feel exactly like you.

 

[Superb0bo]

sure that will have an impact on fit (I'm 6'4 and wear an XXL). However it's much shorter than other similar shirts (eg the old Levi's vintage chambrays),so surely not a "reproduction" of a vintage shirt?

 

[XWT]

It makes a lot of sense to me that, being 6 inches taller than me and wearing a shirt more less an inch longer you’d find it 5 inches short.

Buzz Rickson dosent claim to be a repro line on all front. They are fairly straightforward about the fact that they change the cuts to better fit the Japanese public.

USN chambray shirts, for instance, had very long sleeves, wide shoulders in comparison to collar size and longer tails. The BR version is trimmer (while still more boxy than slim), has shorter tails and sleeves.

Toyo also manufactures Mister Freedom shirting and you may like that cut better. It’s trimmer in the waist, the tails are much longer, and so are the sleeves.

 

[Pulpo]

Inspired by Toyo's King Louie label I did a bit of a dig into the history and culture of bowling shirts. I don't own one but am def Bowl-curious. I think they have a similar easygoing charm and slight bad taste that Aloha shirts do. They also conjure that same idyllic postwar leisure culture that ain't coming back anytime soon. Plus in the summer I really want to wear as much Rayon as possible, and I can't just be "the Aloha shirt guy".

That said, it is also a challenging style. Hitting the mark and avoiding looking like a Rockabilly guy, an ironic hypebeast, or a creepy uncle / Charlie Sheen is tricky. I feel like it works as kind of a statement piece to make a more subdued outfit more fun—I think the look would go well with BR chinos and loafers or dark selvedge denim and side zips, maybe with a brown leather jacket or olive field jacket to mellow it out and if the weather calls. Or for something moodier, slimmer black jeans, double rider, and some jewelry?

King Louie - The Toyo Touch

Love the back design on these last two, reminds me of Basquiat, or at least has that 80s NY postmodern art look.

Pherrows and Mister Freedom - Other Modern Interpretations

Here are some examples of other brands doing takes on the repro bowling shirt—really love the pink pherrows one.

Vintage Versions

For those who aren't afraid of hotdog grease, beer stains, and cigar smoke, why not go back to the originals themselves? Some EXTREMELY good ones on secondhand sites for pretty good prices.

Inspiration

Overall I'm thinking bowling shirts look best when they have sort of a louche seventies Kingpin or of course The Big Lebowski kind of vibe. The super cheesy rock-a-doodle-doo versions look too ska or pompadour for my taste. Also I cannot stand the ironic high-fashion reinterpretations. These are beautifully made garments that tell a story about having fun in a certain time and place, and I feel like (some of) those versions are sort of sneering at those originals, even if they were questionable. Nothing wrong with bringing the style into a new century of course, but the stupid blue flame and dragon versions are too intentionally ugly to be worth consideration in my book.

I'm imagining throwing on one of these on a hot summer night, drinking cheap beer, maybe a little karaoke and few bummed cigarettes. What could be better?

Also, tons of cool vintage photos of alleys and bowlers at this site here: https://bowlinghistory.wordpress.com/

So what do you think, to bowling shirt or not to bowling shirt? How would you go about styling one of these without going Full Sheen?

 

[Gerry Nelson]

Go for it and make them cool again in your own way. It can definitely be done.

 

[XWT]

I think it's best to embrace the Rockabilly slant than to try to steer away from it. Wear them with wide jean and hi-top canvas sneakers for a kick ass summer outfit. Layer a horsehide double rider in the evening and maybe swap the chucks for engineer boots (service boots work fine too).

My analysis is probably only partially right, but I feel like one of the reasons they became a rockabilly staple is that they're cut a bit like a 50's sport shirt, but it was designed to be worn over an undershirt and untucked, kind of like an indoor jacket. This made them work really well in the decades where people wanted a flair of the past but were dreading the idea of tucking in their shirts.

Just... just try stuff. Men are often way to precious about fashion. They're affraid to take any risks and end up dressing in super curated outfits without a single potentially controversial element. When we do that, often we end up looking like a cardboard cutout who'll fall down if someone near sneezes too hard.

 

[Pulpo]

I think it's best to embrace the Rockabilly slant than to try to steer away from it. Wear them with wide jean and hi-top canvas sneakers for a kick ass summer outfit. Layer a horsehide double rider in the evening and maybe swap the chucks for engineer boots (service boots work fine too).

My analysis is probably only partially right, but I feel like one of the reasons they became a rockabilly staple is that they're cut a bit like a 50's sport shirt, but it was designed to be worn over an undershirt and untucked, kind of like an indoor jacket. This made them work really well in the decades where people wanted a flair of the past but were dreading the idea of tucking in their shirts.

Just... just try stuff. Men are often way to precious about fashion. They're affraid to take any risks and end up dressing in super curated outfits without a single potentially controversial element. When we do that, often we end up looking like a cardboard cutout who'll fall down if someone near sneezes too hard.

I think your analysis is spot on there. When you can't beat the Rockabillies, join 'em. It is definitely one of the easier to wear and more immediately identifiable pieces from days gone by. Also I imagine they've always stood out quite a bit at thrift stores. I bet a lot of thrifters first picked them out of the rack and had a chuckle at finding Big Ed's uniform for The Corn Town Cob Bowlers, and so the style got a second life and probably started to gain even more cultural saturation even after it became less common to wear them while actually bowling.

On that note I really like that customization / personalization is sort of inherent to the style. Even the Japanese repro versions have "Gus" stitched on the breast pocket, the hand-me-down nature of it is something that's really essential to the charm I think.

Heh heh man I mean I'm gonna be real with you for a second I was never NOT getting a bowling shirt dude. My wardrobe is more risks than NOT risks at this point. I just think clothes are fun, and I think it's fun to think and talk about these sort of things. And I have been super bored and enjoy doing a little research. I am just curious what everyone's thoughts about this goofy-yet-intriguing style are (and am much obliged for yours!).

And when my shirt DOES arrive I WILL post fit pics and I WILL write a 5000 word personal essay breaking down all my impressions and thoughts. That's The Pulpo Promise™️.