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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. systematic

    systematic Senior member

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    Looking through the gallery at all the different fits, would it be beneficial to provide an example of measurements and a fit pic, kind of like a standard fit type of thing?

    What I mean is there would be type B body measurements, followed by the actual jacket measurements, and then followed by fit pics. Only one of these would be necessary and probably only for a couple of the most popular models.

    It seems to me that it would help a lot of people, and you'd probably get volunteers from here with existing pics already up.


    (Props to Willy for getting the photos up there quickly. Just realized the ones I posted in here yesterday for the mdr are in the gallery already.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  2. BlackToothedGrin

    BlackToothedGrin Senior member

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    i think that would confuse people even more honestly. Everyone is different
     
  3. brad-t

    brad-t Senior member

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    You may be shocked to learn that there are people who would rather own ToJ than RO, even if they both cost exactly the same. ToJ's quality is certainly better than RO. As for design, well, no shit that's subjective. From what I've seen of the materials BS uses, it's not even in the same universe.
     
  4. systematic

    systematic Senior member

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    Hmmm... Just thinking on when I ordered, I wasn't sure how body measurements translated to actual jacket measurements. Drew helped me out, but an example would have also been quite helpful.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  5. Dbear

    Dbear Senior member

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    calling all dark whiskey owners....calling all dark whiskey owners....

    Post a pic, yo
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  6. wj4

    wj4 Senior member

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    Today's stuff:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Timbaland

    Timbaland Senior member

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    Sorry wj4 but that does not work. Your outfit minus the DR says business casual while the jacket is something else.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    Wouldn't work for many reasons, and what is the point? The fits are already fine if you measure yourself properly and with some common sense.
    Mainly, why add another level of complication to what is supposed to be easy, but always confuses people because of the extra noise? Needless to say, people would fuck up the second part if they fuck up the first part.

    We have you measure:

    your shoulders - because the seams need to sit on them without creeping up, or sagging down
    your pits, possibly flexed if you tend to increase your chest by several inches by flexing - because you obviously don't want it to be too tight, or overly big
    your midsection - because we can taper the middle down a tad to make a nice line to the waist
    your waist, or the point, around, where you plan for your jacket to hit - because it needs to fit around and not be too big, or too small

    your front length - because we need to know how long to make the front panels of the jacket, between the bottom of the collar to the bottom of the hem
    your sleeve length - because you don't want sleeves too long or short
    your bicep circumference - because people's arms are different sizes

    This is really as simple as it can be, anybody who can spend even a moment to think about why we need the measurements should be able to figure where they should measure. I see braindead people who measure the p2p on Supreme or Crooks n Castles to sell on ISS or Niketalk, ebay, it's the same logic, which is not rocket science....
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  9. unfuccwittable

    unfuccwittable Member

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    yeah, I'm not feeling that wj4. methinks an A-2 would look better in this case.
     
  10. GBear

    GBear Senior member

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    It looks like you're overdoing it a bit, wj4. What are you wearing that many layers for? It's still so hot in SoCal! :slayer: :D
     
  11. Blackmaged

    Blackmaged Senior member

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    Sadly I'm inclined to agree, trousers + shoes don't really fit the DR imo...

    Kinda brings me to something that's been bugging me for a while: I've got a blacked-out 2010 moto that fits really well but I'm having trouble finding things other than t-shirts to wear under it. Collared shirts + moto looks odd to me for some reason. Normally I'd be incline to say a sweater but I rarely wear sweaters without a button-down underneath. Any suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  12. gdl203

    gdl203 Senior member Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Sweater, no collar underneath (crew T or henley)
     
  13. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    I'm trying to think of reasons why people come into the thread suggesting ways to make measuring easier, and all I can come up with, based on my experiences dealing with people over email, etc is that they are just too lazy to use a measuring tape and get the 7 or so measurements, or more likely, are 'tl;dr' with the measuring instructions... I mean, there's really many ways to go about it, 2 or 3 of which I recommend, and have illustrated and written about many times - but they all end up in the same place in the end, you get a jacket that fits if you follow the instructions. Everybody's body is differently shaped, weighted, and sized, so there is no reason to even worry about what someone else bought. I have Charly on employ to address that very topic, and that's all he does.

    The best cut, however, is if you provide us with your body measurements and maybe show us some jacket measurements and fit pics as well, so that we have a few sources. I am not talking about what you think your TOJ jacket should measure out to, I am talking about OTR jackets. Most times it can work if you dictate the measurements to us, but there's always a few people who get way too aggressive or the opposite with their measurement sets and then are disappointed, but the reality of that is, they aren't pattern cutters or sewers themselves and just don't have the experience creating clothing to know what will work in the end. Adding an inch or two to the length is one thing, creating all the dimensions of the jacket from scratch - that's our job. The measurements might seem like they'll fit on the body, but making the jacket look good too, that is a separate function and should be accounted for. We gotta dress the body, rather than just specific measuring points, each dimension will end up working with the others sympathetically to make a jacket that looks good.
    We have ways to formulate your jacket size from just your body measurements, and we have more than a few baselines that provide for attractive jacket lines - so really, don't worry. It's best just to do the basic body measurements we list and let us do our stuff with the jacket measurements. There is no simpler way when it comes to making a made to measure jacket, no other way.
     
  14. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    I'm totally fine with a DR, button up shirt, and trousers, and those shoes are good too. The color of the cardigan is a bit of a stark contrast though, and well, it's a lot of clothes too. Could just go without the cardigan, I think that fit would be fine. Overall though, that fit looks fine to me.
     
  15. BlackToothedGrin

    BlackToothedGrin Senior member

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    It's looks like wj4 just hasn't gotten accustomed to posing for pictures so the first picture looks a little awkward. Looks a lot better in the second picture.
     
  16. brad-t

    brad-t Senior member

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    trust drew's advice on measurements, it's in his best interest that your jacket looks good on you.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. Dbear

    Dbear Senior member

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  18. chaos

    chaos Senior member

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    Did anyone ever order any of the dark grey calf?
     
  19. buran

    buran Senior member

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    measuring tape is free from IKEA. If you are close by to one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  20. systematic

    systematic Senior member

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    You're right. I did and I'm sure you did as well.

    But, getting to that point and being 100% confident in the measurements wasn't that easy. I went back and forth a bit second guessing and I think you did too -at least that's what I got from reading all of your sizing posts in this thread.

    I think this would be somewhat helpful, and the benefits worth the expenditure of getting someone with a great fit to submit their numbers and have them posted publicly.

    And I'm not sure if it would complicate things, either. It's standard practice for a lot of places. They give you model measurements and the measurements of the piece you're trying to buy, followed by photos. And yeah, I know those aren't mtm items, but that practice is still helpful nonetheless.

    You're right, it's simple enough to where the fit error rate shouldn't be as high as it is. It is most likely due to user laziness, but not all is. Some is probably due to people not knowing what good numbers look like. It's worth trying to address that, especially when it doesn't take much effort.

    It's not really about making measuring easier. What I suggested would still require people to go through both measurement methods and get the advice of Charly/you. It would just give them an idea of what a great fitting jacket looks like and what the measurements are for that person and that jacket and give them some sort of comparison for their order.

    You're right, that's why you guys look over the numbers. I'm not suggesting people deviate from the pattern, to the contrary, they'd be comparing their numbers to a great fitting one.

    A standard example, given people actually look at it, may help weed out some of the messed up numbers you get submitted, and hopefully decrease the fit error rate. No, it won't completely eliminate them, but I think it would help a bit.


    Ftr, I really am just trying to be helpful and I hope this isn't getting on your nerves. Having said that, I rest my case. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011

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