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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. Foxhound

    Foxhound Senior member

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    Melbourne, Australia
    Have you ever seen Sepp Blatter and Drew Kieth in the same room together?

    Coincidence, I think not.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. janoy89

    janoy89 Senior member

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    I think Drew is actually Distrobiant


    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. iamacyborg

    iamacyborg Senior member

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    Lol mate, are you really going to start pointing fingers?

    There's only one person who deserves your ire, and that's Drew. No one prevented you from taking action previously, you chose not to.
     
  4. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    i'm sorry but he's right. any time anybody had a complaint about how the jackets were taking so long they got shit on (i know because i also made snide remarks to the tune of "anybody who complains gets sent back to the line")

    (there were however a lot of anal people asking questions about whether they should increase sleeve width by .25" etc)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  5. barramundi

    barramundi Senior member

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    +1. Our Messiah has arrived, and he has told us what needs to be done. Don't let up, boys! Let's salt the internet so that nothing Drew plants can grow.
     
  6. barramundi

    barramundi Senior member

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    Nah, man. It takes time and collective effort to foment organized and uniform action. Don't underestimate inertia. People did take action, and others just told them to shut up. People who wrote off the complainers as crybabies and annoying whiners really killed that inertia and just brought us all back to ground zero "twiddle our thumbs and be patient, Drew will eventually deliver."

    I agree there is no point in pointing fingers now since I think it's pretty clear to everyone how much of a lazy and cowardly sociopath Drew truly is. We need to all stick together and save our rage for the true and deserving target of our torches and forks -- Drew "The Thief" Keith.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  7. TheObserver

    TheObserver Senior member

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    I want SFJune issue dedicating to Drew. Something like LA Guy and Syn both write about their past experience with Drew and TOJ and how villainous Drew has turned into. Would love to have a separate article derived insights from Charly- former right hand man and Brad-t - owner of the greatest TOJ jacket ever. Also some articles features defenders thought and people who have nothing in order but care about TOJ matter would enrich the issue' contents.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
    5 people like this.
  8. LaymanX

    LaymanX Senior member

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    Not a bad idea actually. The long road to the ultimate wardrobe is rife with hazardous potholes like Dayton, Ambrosi, ToJ, etc.

    Maybe a quick summary of such incidents of infamy would make for a compelling story to show the flipside of SF success stories. Then again, maybe it's bad for business. [​IMG]
     
  9. Spaghettimatt

    Spaghettimatt Senior member

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    Ironically I ordered a pair of Daytons in Jan 2015... a full year after my second ToJ order and ~16 months after my first... and they just shipped.

    How the tables have turned.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. B0Bs4g3t

    B0Bs4g3t Senior member

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    Delaware
    Sorry guys, it's all my fault.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
    4 people like this.
  11. XVOS

    XVOS Active Member

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    We don't necessarily need to win a suit though. The vast majority of legal issues get settled out of court. My guess is it would be worth the effort (and something I am considering doing) to pay a SK lawyer a couple of hundred dollars (it costs roughly 400 here but probably less in SK) to draft a letter to Drew and his business partners laying out our grievances and threatening action. Lawsuits are both incredibly expensive and extremely random in terms of result and business are willing to go through large amounts of effort and expense to avoid them. Even if Drew doesn't care do we really think his business partners would react calmly to this letter. They would pressure him and hopefully we would get some movement and this would absolutely be worth the money.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  12. basil rathbone

    basil rathbone Senior member

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    Yeah, the Dayton situation wasn't even close to this fiasco.
     
  13. MauriSSio

    MauriSSio Senior member

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    I'm starting to lean towards this. Doesn't seem like Drew is doing anything or really even cares. He's not answering emails and nothing past July orders have even been mentioned.

    I also agree that the toj defenders did a really good job to stymie anybody that was worried or suspicious early on.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  14. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Senior member

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    Zulu minus 7
    

    Just because he's in SK doesn't mean US law is irrelevant. That's why I was asking where the other purchasers were located. There are plenty of ways that US law is entirely relevant.


    I hear you and almost entirely agree, except perhaps on what possible action can be taken with respect to the funds… even if he paid himself. That is why I was inquiring earlier as to the original status of TOJ as a corporate entity and what (if?) the partnership agreement said. If he breached fiduciary duty re: TOJ then his "payment" may be unjust enrichment and therefore traceable and subject to disgorgement.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  15. Gruff

    Gruff Senior member

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    Ok, great. So if you're considering this and you actually follow through, are you going to be the point of contact for this action as well as the main driver? Do you understand how the Korean legal system works? Under Korean law, is this a criminal or civil action? Do they even have that distinction, or is it something else? Are you going to pay any and all legal costs? Are you Korean or Korean-American, with extensive time in Korea so that you intimately understand Korean culture? More importantly, do you understand Korean legal and business culture? Most importantly, do you speak, read and write fluent Korean so that you can adequately convey to counsel the situation, and they can draft the appropriate documents that clearly reflect the case, documents you can review to make sure everything's characterized appropriately because you read Korean? Do you have the wherewithal to hop on a flight to Seoul at a moment's notice if required, if you'll be the point of contact? What happens if you get hustled by the Korean Saul Goodman, what recourse will you have? What will you do if the SK cops somehow get involved and start asking why a foreigner is hassling a "decent, law abiding" Korean business?

    I'm not trying to bust your balls, man. I'm just want you and others to stop and think about exactly what going down the legal route entails. If you've got connections to SK and know the country like the back of your hand, then by all means go ahead and do whatever you feel you need to do. But as I and others have pointed out, trying to do complex international litigation is inherently difficult, even for highly trained lawyers. Top that off with people in this thread who do stuff like solely eating discounted out-of-date grocery store cookies vice actual meals in order to save enough money for leather jackets because priorities are important and...yeah, these aren't the kinds of folks you want involved in your legal crusade.

    On the other hand, it doesn't cost you anything to sit at home in your house robe, eat your lucky charms and continually ding TOJ or Libertine or whatever else until reputations are shredded. But that means you have to make shitting on Drew Keith one of your most cherished hobbies, one that you gleefully pursue with relish, whenever you get the chance. It's going to require a certain level of vindictiveness, so you have to decide how much your money's worth to you.

    Or, you could just write off your loss and review lessons learned: never, ever purchase anything from small time hustlers overseas, and if you absolutely must, use a credit card and mark the maximum date at which time you can do a chargeback in case you have to bail.

    Also, folks, keep things in perspective. I know a lot of you guys are in situations where however much hundreds you spent on TOJ products represents a huge chunk of change and the loss isn't trivial but remember, there are worse things in life than getting scammed out of a mid-tier leather jacket. This will pass.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. chupas

    chupas Senior member

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    Seems like some SEO would be much cheaper than hiring a lawyer.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  17. Distorbiant

    Distorbiant Senior member

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    Gruff is the alt of Drew I recognize his writing style.

    Nice try Drew but the Sons of Jawnz shall not be defeated so easily.

    You may have bested us in the past but united our power is greater than you ever imagined.

    We have studied Sun Tzu's Art of War, and the chinese thirty-six stratagems. This game is not over yet.

    "Remember this well. There are two kind of fights in this world. As long as we place ourselves in battle, we must always know the difference: the fight to defend life...And the fight to defend pride!" -Captain Ukitake
     
    2 people like this.
  18. diniro

    diniro Senior member

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    Saul is a good man.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  19. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Pretty much it in a nutshell. I don't know how seriously any of you have looked into international litigation, but I have, and at the end, seeing that the offense would not weaken our trademark, we decided against pursuing any legal action, although it would have been a clear cut case - much clearer than this. Just not worth the time and expense.

    I don't think that you guys have really costed out how much legal costs would rack up to be, and how little you'll be able to recoup, if anything. Someone wrote this a while back, "Congratulations, you won. Here is your $5." That's a pretty optimistic scenario. Another scenario. "Well, we did the best we could. We'll send you your $20K invoice for legal services by registered mail."

    You will probably not get anywhere close to your $800 back, and no, you won't be permitted to slap Drew in the face for his offenses against you. Yeah, it sucks.
     
  20. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Having watch most of these events unfold, and a few similar other cases that were not forum or clothing related, I can confidently say "Nothing would have changed, except for, and this is a big maybe, the timeline".

    You have a right to vent, of course.
     
    1 person likes this.

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