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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. Prudy

    Prudy Senior member

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    Good points, but...

    No business charges the consumer based solely on what an item costs to make. They set prices based on market value and what people are willing to pay.

    Most markups at full retail are 70% to start. Since the demand for toj is so huge, and they never have sales, you can assume you are paying full retail at all times. It's proportional, but, unless the toj guys are terrible businessmen/women, they are making as much money as they can on these items.

    Brands like SLP do exactly as you say, and those costs are real and included in the prices.

    The point of my original post was simply this: it sounds like you guys are all getting jerked around something serious, and I don't get why people, after seeing this whole thing evolve, would still pay for a spot, etc.

    The way I see it, instead of putting down $800, waiting 2 years and fretting all the time, just save some dough for a few more months, take advantage of sales and get a nice leather sooner than later. From what I've seen of toj, it's nothing special and not worth the wait or anxiety. I fell bad for the folks who put the money down and have been waiting - seems like a ridiculous hell for no good reason.

    But, whatever...you guys obviously don't need my input - just take it for what it's worth, whether that be something or nothing.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  2. pistolero

    pistolero Senior member

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    Waiting is only stressful if you let it be. I'm at 1 yr on 2 jackets, and while I'd rather have them sooner than later, I'm not exactly in "hell" right now.
     
  3. mike868y

    mike868y Senior member

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    why would you pay $800 for a jacket which you might not even receive?
     
    5 people like this.
  4. wangjt

    wangjt Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your concern but $800 on one jacket is already considered a splurge for me and I even had to convince myself to do that. I can't imagine myself spending $3500 on two jackets no matter how nice they are. And it's not like I don't have the money to, I just think there are better ways to spend my money.
     
    2 people like this.
  5. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Again, I haven't seen anyone design a jacket as good as ToJ, in the kind of style they make. It's not about price, it's simply about design (at least for me). What you bought is this:
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    7 people like this.
  6. henrylkr

    henrylkr Member

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    Still waiting on those large wallets. don't see why they are taking so much longer then the small wallets. Probably another zipper problem? -.-


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. Dbear

    Dbear Senior member

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    Why would you come in here saying you got a great deal on a SLP calf Biker for 2 stacks but conviently forget to mention that its bedazzled :lol:
     
    9 people like this.
  8. Prudy

    Prudy Senior member

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    I'm not comparing SLP to toj at all, that wasn't my point. Taste and money spent is subjective and we all have our different likes/dislikes and priorities.

    After reading the thread I was just surprised that people would still be trying to get blood from that toj stone. It's not my call, though, obviously. Just wanted to pose a counterpoint since it seemed like people felt they were getting ripped off and/or messed with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  9. Death24xASecond

    Death24xASecond Senior member

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    I don't get why people are bashing Prudy--guy's points are all stuff several people here have made before (minus the --sorry Prudy--horrendous, blinged out jacket). I mean at this point it's obviously not worth the drama and fuss over just $800, and it's far better to wait (if you need to) until you have enough to go buy something else. And there are many choices from the Schott/Vanson level up to RO/SLP/Julius/etc. in terms of pricing and aesthetics. So it isn't like TOJ has a monopoly on the design/price framework for leather jackets (well, I guess except the MDR because I still haven't come across a better design at any price tier; if I did I'd immediately give up on the TOJ). But as someone pointed out to me a while ago TOJ's specific clientele is the type who's just making an entry into leather jackets and likely doesn't have much disposable income that can be spent on good leatherwear (which costs, period).

    I mean, I've lately been bitten very badly by the "interesting" leather bug and I've been scouring the interwebs for specific Julius/RO makeups--it's a completely different aesthetic for me and I don't mind; the TOJ will get here when it will. There are plenty of interesting things out there in the meantime.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    It's because some people think ToJ will deliver, albeit slowly (for evidence, the last couple of months have had deliveries every week, which are then punctuated with about 1000 annoying posts between them). And because everything suggested in this thread as an alternative has been

    1. Not comparable in terms of aesthetics (lots of workwear jackets suggested in here)
    2. Not comparable in terms of price (people suggesting $5k jackets in here)
    3. Flat out ugly.

    IMO, number 3 is the most convincing reason.


    No, those aren't comparable in terms of pricing or aesthetics at all. The first two make actual leather motos that will make you look like an actual biker (where as ToJ wont); the others are in a different kind of aesthetic field and price tier.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  11. Death24xASecond

    Death24xASecond Senior member

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    I didn't even say they are comparable. I said they are choices. Alternatives. Different things. Basically I'm saying there is something out there for everyone.
     
  12. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    If you're specifically interested in the ToJ aesthetic, then those aren't alternatives.

    Yes, the world has other kinds of jackets.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    5 people like this.
  13. Prudy

    Prudy Senior member

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    You guys talk about TOJ like it's something special, but it's not. You'd rather dis SLP and pretend you're getting something unique for your 2 years and $800. It's true that people overpay for SLP, but at least they don't overpay AND wait 2 fucking years.

    As was said above, good leather is expensive. Good design is expensive. As a general rule, you get what you pay for, gents.

    That said, if you want to do that, you're right - it's totally your choice and your money.
     
  14. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Like you, I have an SLP leather that I bought on sale (though mine is not bedazzled). I like Hedi a lot, but what everyone says about his work is true. The quality is mediocre, the prices are ridiculous, and the designs look like they're from Hot Topic.

    I'm not saying ToJ is something special above all other leather jacket manufacturers. I'm just saying -- every time someone suggests an alternative in here, it's not actually an alternative. It's either in a different aesthetic field or price tier, or it's flat out ugly.

    In your case, it's all three.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
    10 people like this.
  15. nyarkies

    nyarkies Senior member

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  16. nyarkies

    nyarkies Senior member

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    Prudy,

    There are things other than design and pricing that make people want to get a TOJ. I believe the selling point that drew people to TOJ was the MTM option. You get to have a jacket made specified to your measurements. Then there's the option of choosing the kind of leather and color. For some, they were able to order some one-offs. All of that combined, made it popular.

    I do agree that (and I'm sure most do) that the current situation isn't worth getting into the whole mess. However, for the rest that have already have a spot, receiving the jacket they have created to their specifications is still something desirable for them. And that makes it special for them.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. colabear

    colabear Senior member

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    I get your point of view Prudy. I would rather live a little and spend more or find a good deal during the sales than wait dying for something that may come up to nothing.

    I'm just at awe for the obsession, for lack of a better word that these guys have for this leather jacket. Maybe it's the same as how women are willing to wait 3 years and spend 10k for a Birkin bag, maybe not. I mean Hermes is Hermes and I wouldn't put TOJ in the same level as Hermes, but I think that they both have fuel to add to the fire. The fuel, whether it's the quality of the product, the hype, or how it has strucked a cord with its core customer is there, BUT is it really there when you have people complaining and waiting.
     
  18. hmtwrk

    hmtwrk Senior member

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    of course toj isn't anything special, it's done. drew is done. i doubt anyone here or anywhere would say that they ever overpaid for a toj and no one has waited 2 yet either.

    back when you lead times were 4 weeks and jackets were cheaper, yes it was something special. getting a mtm leather jacket, with some levels of creative input, or in special cases like brad-t, a lot of creative input - that was a pretty unique proposition.

    and no, you can't come into this thread with your slp and rick owens and say that what you get with those brands is good design and good leather. i've gotten 4 jackets from toj for less than $1700 total and they are just ordinary-looking leather jackets, nothing special like you said, but they fit in my wardrobe well and i can wear them without them looking like they are wearing me.

    if toj never existed i would probably go with undercover for $2k, the leather feels a little more plasticky than i'd like, but japanese sizes are good for my body type.
     
  19. brad-t

    brad-t Senior member

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    It's the fucking leather, dudes. You're not going to find leather this nice with a "fashion" jacket for under 1k, period.

    Asking why people are trying to get blood from a stone is a stupid question when they paid for the fucking stone already.
     
    4 people like this.
  20. somatoform

    somatoform Senior member

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    Granted, I don't know what particular style(s) of toj you are looking at, but consider a toj A-1 suede bomber. Now look at the Valstar A-1. I think this is a perfect example where all three conditions are met and exceeded by the Valstar (imo). They never did pull off one that was as nice as a Valstar.
     

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