1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. MauriSSio

    MauriSSio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    
    I've taken a year and a half of kenpo. But i don't compete.i probably barely know enough to know I'm not clueless. Doesn't matter though I'm speaking purely as a fan. Just because the sport has been like that for a long time doesn't mean it's impossible for it to evolve and to improve upon it and I'm not the only one who believes that.
     
  2. MauriSSio

    MauriSSio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    
    only at first till they learn it might not be a good idea.
     
  3. SurakiCrim

    SurakiCrim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    226
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    I love this, attack charly's work related to TOJ, now question and critique the sport he has passion for.
     
    6 people like this.
  4. reallypeacedoff

    reallypeacedoff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    284
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014

    Charlie can not wait until that last jacket is shipped out!
     
  5. mrchariybrown

    mrchariybrown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,022
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Location:
    Philly
    

    Purely as a fan. So tell me then, as a fan, why do you think same day weigh ins would be better? Btw, saying "they'll be closer to their walking weight" is not a good reason to why it's better. That's that just explaining what a same day weigh in would do.
     
  6. MauriSSio

    MauriSSio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    
    to me that's a reason why it's better. Both fighters would be closer in weight. Why do you think toj stopped shipping jackets for 6 months?
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,345
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    This, and it would result in more injuries. The weight cut sucks, but I can't think of any instances that I know of personally where it has resulted in medical issues or injuries. Over the long term, it might not be that great for the kidneys, but there is also no conclusive evidence for this. That's just a guess that people have.

    It is one of the aspects of the sport that everyone knows is absolutely stupid, but no real viable alternative has ever been found. The graduated weight cut for pro boxing is the only viable alternative, and that is really costly, and only makes sense for boxing, where the purses are huge. Changing rules based on an emotional reaction often leads to disastrous results. The Queensbury rules and heavy boxing gloves is perhaps the strongest example of that. The rules were enacted to take away the "barbarism" and blood. Well, a cut heals. Fighting bareknuckled meant that the power of the hits were modulated, since you can more easily break your hand if you just unleash. And as MMA has showned, a man hit flush with a bare fist or really lightweight gloves (MMA fighters wear 4 ounce gloves) is going to go down pretty easily. Your hands move fast, and your hands are protected. So you catch someone, and because you can follow them to the ground, and the fight is pretty much done With 14 or 16 ounce gloves, a guy can get hurt a lot on his feet. And sustaining so many shots, over the course of a 3, 5, 8, 10, or 12 round fight, without rest, and with much less chance of going down fast, and you have a lot more instances of long term brain trauma.

    It should be worth nothing that in amateur wrestling, sometimes the weigh-ins are the day of. I'm not a wrestler, so any college wrestlers out there, feel free to correct me.
     
  8. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,203
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    A lot of grappling arts have same day weigh ins.

    What they should do if we must have weigh ins the day before is if you miss weight, you lose 90% of your purse and if it goes to decision you automatically lose. Also, you should be cut from whichever org for missing weight twice. Might even be worth requiring sanctioning bodies to re-approve your license.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  9. mrchariybrown

    mrchariybrown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,022
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Location:
    Philly
    

    Let's give all fighters the same exact diet too, and training facilities, and sleep and training schedule.

    Jackets stopped shipping? Weird, I could've sworn some people here posted about receiving jackets in the past few days /sarcasm
     
  10. mrchariybrown

    mrchariybrown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,022
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Location:
    Philly
    

    I'm all for severe penalties for missing weight.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Spaghettimatt

    Spaghettimatt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    

    Is this like a Trojan horse question?
     
    2 people like this.
  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,345
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    Both fighters are pretty close in weight anyway. Especially at the top levels of the sport, all these guys are really disciplined, and everyone cuts about the same amount of weight. If I had to guess, I'd say that all the fighters are within 10 lbs of each other, fight day. There are exceptions. A few fighters famously cut nearly no weight (BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar), but the majority of guys are using the same techniqes under guidance of experienced trainers.

    Look, I think that cutting weight is a bad thing for your overall health, and the nominal weight classes in MMA, are too wide apart. But seriously, it's not really a major issue, one way or the other. Everyone knows they have to do it, and everyone does it. It's one of the non-glamorous parts of sports. If people were regularly having to be hospitalized because of the cut, then sure, it's something that should be immediately addressed. But that's simply not the case. The vast majority of the time, you just get some dudes being moody and grumpy for a week or two every so often.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  13. Distorbiant

    Distorbiant Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,441
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    @LA Guy what do you think about enforcers in the NHL and the recurring brain damage they take

    most hockey fans want to keep the fighting in the game
     
  14. MauriSSio

    MauriSSio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    
    why do you only ask him :(
     
  15. brad-t

    brad-t Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,535
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    wow what the hell is happening
     
    15 people like this.
  16. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,345
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    Fighting in hockey (and I know a few enforcers - there are a lot of NHL hockey players that come through Kingston ON at some point), is, imo, and from anecdotal evidence, one of the most physically and emotionally debilitating activities in sports, period. A few things. In an actual combat sport, you are required to do a full physical after a fight (well, in the pros), and you are not allowed to fight again for 2 weeks, at least. Most of the time, you are required to take more time off for injuries, wear and tear. If you get KO'd or have an actual injury, you are forbidden contact training for a while, and get a bit long time off before you are eligible to fight again.

    In hockey, these guys are expected to be toughest dudes on the ice, and the fights are not regulated, so dudes are just out there fighting injured and pumped up full of painkillers and other substances that would trigger every drug test in the world.

    Not only that, but in an actual combat sport, you get pumped up, you know pretty much exactly when you are going to fight, and there is a plenty of warning for you to warm up, both physically and mentaly. And then you're in a fight. And there is a ref whose job it is to keep you from getting hurt too badly, and then it's over, and you have this incredible feeling of both elation and relief. And you are unambiguously praised. You went in there, and win or lose, did your best to kick someone's ass, which is the explicit point of the sport.

    Hockey enforcers sit there all night. They don't know when they are going to fight, so it's constant tension. And when they are called on, they gotta go break the rules. Explicitly break the rules. You are simultaneously praised and vilified for it. And you are not respected for any other skills you might have on the ice. That's not your job. Your job is to go out there and good it up. It fucks with people's heads. An incredible number of these guys are hopped up on anti-depressants as well as painkillers.

    So yeah, I'm against fighting in hockey. It's not a part of the game. It's not "guys blowing off their steam" like some coaches like to lie. You see fights spontaneously break out in baseball and soccer and basketball and football, and pretty much every game played by men. But in hockey, it's staged and built up. And it's not worth the damage that the fights do to the fighters. If you want to see a fight, go see a fight. Or better yet, go train a bit, and get some respect for guys who spend their lives perfecting their craft and honing their minds.

    Fans are stupid. But the good thing is that they adapt to pretty much every rule change. Rules in every sport change, pretty much constantly, and it's either to make the sport more exciting and competitive or safer for the players. I think that taking systematic fighting out of the NHL would be good for the sport. Fights are still going to break out. I don't think that it's the right move to make a big deal out of it either. Just toss the players involved. No need for inquiries and huge fines or anything like that like you see in the NBA. Just "you've been ejected. Get the fuck outta here." It sends the right message without making a huge deal out of it. It should be be marginalized as "something that occasionally and regretably happens."
     
    3 people like this.
  17. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,345
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    We were fighting and a discussion broke out.
     
    16 people like this.
  18. nkwu

    nkwu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    87
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    

    Never was implying it was a good choice


    Albolene on deck?


    Is the purpose/philosophy of cutting weight for body building the same as fighting? Essentially act as a proxy for 'equalizing' the competition and providing a 'fair' competition?



    LA Guy you fight?

    How come you think the MMA weight classes are too wide apart? I feel like the boxing divisions are a bit ridiculous.
     
  19. lowk

    lowk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    302
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Idk about college but I wrestled in high school and weigh ins were day of the meet/matches. Didn't rly stop ppl from going on a run with sweat suit, spitting, not drinking/eating before though.
     
  20. cutemelon

    cutemelon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    220
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    i want a jacket :(
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by