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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. Dbear

    Dbear Senior member

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    hope we get more jacket pics next shipping round. action shot of dark brown goat, breaking in nicely. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    19 people like this.
  2. nyarkies

    nyarkies Senior member

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    I do agree that expectation when the jackets are coming and the lack of time frame has been making members antsy. Here's the thing, the last update as far as how long it will take was quoted at 35-40 weeks. Some have passed 40 weeks already. I don't think giving another estimate remedies the situation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  3. Stillmaticbeat

    Stillmaticbeat Senior member

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    the way i read it, he doesn't give a poop anymore and neither do i, lets move on to better things
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. skeen7908

    skeen7908 Senior member

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    What a load of self indulgent dribble.

    People want to know when they are getting their jackets which shouldnt be that fucking hard to figure out given that you know all the variables involved

    It took minutes of my life to scan that essay to figure out there was no new useful information in it
     
    6 people like this.
  5. veekta

    veekta Senior member

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    Family emergency, drew is filling in for shipments in the meantime, which means a lot to me considering he is taking time out of his restaurant work to devote to TOJ rather than letting dan's absence create an even bigger delay in shipment times. There was some relevant information in there; hopefully this means that things will start shipping again in the coming weeks.

    I haven't followed toj until relatively recently (when it started closing and the shipment delay woes became the focal point of conversation), but every time drew pops in and talks a little about his life, restaurant work, and his outlook on clothes, I think it would've been nice to have been more involved in the days where he was posting actively in the thread.
     
  6. ssmith15

    ssmith15 Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  7. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    To be honest, both are variables of each other - I agree that we should've explored more into sampling the range of available materials; it would've taken more work and TOJ was always about running very slim and low key, with the fewest possible people putting everything into the jackets and not really doing the glamour and smoke and mirrors of presentation/disposable showcasing.
    Pricing up would've probably afforded someone who could've done things like that, as well as afforded someone to do more queue-minding and calming of nerves of the first time buyers, but at the end of the day, the years I've spent doing this on the forum meant someone will always find something to complain about in order to fill the empty forum space, I always cut what I felt was least important. Pricing your own wares is a huge topic of discussion in business terms; pretty far back I had decided I didn't want to run TOJ in boutiques or in brick+mortar because of the cost of the actual product, and because the SF price would've had to increase drastically to match something like that. We sold at wholesale price the whole time; realistically the jackets should've probably been 1400 on up for the product/production service that was on offer. Money wasn't the biggest priority though, and we still like making leather jackets that are quality and will last. That was all it was all along.




    As for "can we find out more about timelines on specific orders' - yes, I can eventually, but here's the problem, and it's the been the same for years: I do know all of the variables in the TOJ chain of actions, but don't work with them myself singlehandedly, I design the jackets and then accompany along parts of the production/shipping process. The other people are more dutied to take the orders, process the orders, put the orders in, make the jackets, ship the jackets. When someone posts here and says 'hey when will my jacket be done?' - the answer 99/100 times is that I don't know, dude, here's why: you're posting from some screen name like Stillmaticfadez1421 with x amount of posts and because I don't do the emails and don't know your real names in relation to your style forum posting names, I can decipher no more information than anyone else on this green earth from that. If you posted and said, 'my name is Michael McDonald and I ordered X jacket on X/X/XX and have made no modifications to the order since that time' then it becomes easier to backtrack and find out more.

    Want to know the truly realistic scenario in this, most of the time? it starts with the first question, and then the answer is almost impossible to find because the person in question is old enough to use the internet but not old enough to have a Paypal and so they pay with their sister/mom's account; when we get the order slips we just assume we are making a men's sized jacket for Esther Alvarez or Martha Wang and that's the name on the ticket, and we get it through. Often times we have a hell of a time shipping because mom/sister's name is the payment receipt and the email screenname is nothing like the person's real name either, or their style forum screenname. Woes of the internet. In essence it's like someone coming to your door repeatedly but in a disguise/costume each time, saying 'hey, remember me?'


    Re: the 'he doesn't care about my leather jacket' part, I dunno man, lol - Pretty dramatic - that's untrue and people have been ordering and receiving TOJ orders for years and posting fits (which doesn't ever get old for me, btw, I enjoy seeing the feedback fits like it was day one), why would I suddenly stop caring about it? We got a bunch of orders after we announced that we wanted to shut down the MTM, this is known. A few years ago we wanted to take a break from taking orders and the same thing happened, the wait list got large, people waited for jackets for awhile. I explained all of this before shutdown orders were taken, and said that lead times would increase exponentially based on how many people got in before you. I realize that the lead time has gotten long, the tailors are making the jackets at their pace and I feel bad about the waiting - and I want to live a post-TOJ life too, man. I want to get every TOJ order shipped and then finally live my life for a bit without daily leather jacket-making in my head.

    We have always fed the tailors orders, and they have made them at the pace they can - unfortunately it's not an MTM leather jacket vending machine, rather it's people receiving orders for 'a blue MDR, but delete this pocket and add quilt and re-do the pattern in this place' (x 300) - so it just keeps working along at the pace it can. I have discussed this in the past as well, but oft time people forget that Korea runs on a diff work schedule than america, and that there are a lot of national holidays (socialist country) that combine with my older workers just working at the pace they want.

    As for me not posting in the thread as much - I prefaced the previous post with 'the answer is basically the same' and someone repeated it as such - it's just a waiting room for your jackets to be born. I don't have a lot to post about lately as we are production mode, and not making new designs or taking orders. Can't cook in the kitchen and entertain in the dining room at the same time, is what I am saying. I guess I could post musings of my life day to day but I feel like I've done so much already that you could probably accurately guess my daily schedule based on my SF posts. :ember: Restaurant has been a separate thing I do with my night time hours from about 3pm-midnight most days, from Scout til now. TOJ was always mornings/daymarket, most sourcing run by Dan. Sally quit TOJ a few months ago because she's like 23 and she couldn't wake up before 3pm everyday, and her job was mostly sending tracking notices anyway. As for me and style forum, I'm just getting older, and the off-topic posting and stuff on forums doesn't really come in first place for things I want to do with my day these days. Doesn't have to do with my jobs. I hope this answers some of the questions, as I am here in Korea alone this next couple weeks and would like to get off the internet now and go back to the work I was doing. :embar:
     
    34 people like this.
  8. el Bert

    el Bert Senior member

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    Can I buy your cosmic wonder parka? Lol
     
  9. Foxhound

    Foxhound Senior member

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    Strong post drew, thanks for the update. As the Backpacks and Wallets was one large order, are you able to say how far those are off?
     
  10. djt00

    djt00 Senior member

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    I think TOJ should stop taking more orders until previous orders are done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  11. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    as I stated in my prior post there are no more orders being taken. you can relax.
     
    6 people like this.
  12. Distorbiant

    Distorbiant Senior member

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  13. masshi

    masshi Senior member

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    nooo

    i was never able to raise the money for a 0 ):
     
  14. sussi

    sussi Senior member

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    so no black leather MA-1 for me[​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. emilo

    emilo Senior member

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    Copenhagen / London / New York
    

    TOJ has (finally) died. Long live TOJ.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Find Finn

    Find Finn Senior member

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    Drew you know what they say "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". ;)


    As it's been stated before, one of the main issues is that the bulk of Toj customers are young/students and have never dealt with mtm stuff before and/or have no insight in how it is to run a business no less a small business, where you have to play octopus to get everything done. I think most of the really nuisance customers will become full one Mafoofans, when they have to (become able) to buy a mtm sofa, a new build home etc., good times will be had by none.

    Regarding production mtm will always be more time consuming, as you can't just stock up on 200 size 48 black jackets and churn them out on order, I have the same issue dealing in furniture, where people don't get why we don't have every color combo in every model in stock (which would mean we had 1.000.000.000.000 chairs sitting in storage). :face palm:


    Knowing that the food truck/restaurant was always the end game, you can't really fault you for going for it, when the possibility occurs, good luck with it. :thumbs-up:
     
    2 people like this.
  17. chimaki

    chimaki Well-Known Member

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    you've yet to directly answer a question related to the production status of jackets in which you've taken payment and gone 2.5x beyond an estimated delivery date. that simply doesn't fly. you touched upon a "bottleneck" in about 3 sentences and have since written several posts. you're not taking new orders, so old orders are the only thing that matter. answer some questions with a concrete response and at least people will have clarity.

    btw, an uptick in orders doesn't constitute a bottleneck in itself, you can still gauge output per time frame, and can most likely reliably do that within a week even given changes in the workforce. fif you didn't have answers you shouldn't have come one and blabbered.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. mcsmif

    mcsmif Well-Known Member

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    Quote: You're a sycophant. And this attitude is disgusting.

    I've said it before, but it bears repeating: It doesn't matter if you're selling hot dogs, hand jobs, or mtm leather jackets, bad business is bad business. It's not a customer's fault for having unfair expectations; it's the business owner's fault for not managing those expectations properly. Lead times have been twice as long as were initially proposed, and are now on track to exceed a year's wait. The sole communicable customer relations figure of the company (Charly, while readily-available and steadfast) has no insight into the actual production times and the owner of the company doesn't care anymore, if he ever did, about treating customers fairly.

    You can decry the uninitiated, or count forum posts, or engage in ageism all you want, but that behavior doesn't invalidate that people sent a company thousands of dollars through the internet and have not received what they ordered in the time frame they were made to expect.

    I mean what the hell. Dude write two meandering, passive-aggressive posts essentially saying that the people who want to know the skinny on their jackets are ignorant latecomers--and that's somehow acceptable?

    People buy mtm for all sorts of reasons, but among them is the assumption that they're purchasing something made distinctly for them by (or under the purview of) someone who cares about the product. There is an air of transparency and a connection to the process that you would never get buying your jacket at the mall. Very often, that product and process is worth waiting and/or paying extra for. It's certainly not worth being talked down to.

    At least when I buy a jacket at the mall, the clerk doesn't seem to resent my very presence.
     
    17 people like this.
  19. Roscius

    Roscius Senior member

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    You sound annoying. Like that other guy
     
  20. Find Finn

    Find Finn Senior member

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    Aww thats cute, no I just own a business that deals in mtm and highly bespoke stuff, so I know the issues Drew deal with, only difference is that my business has a lot more zeros in the price of the products, which raises the pedanticalness by x1000, which is where the Mafoofan reference comes in, which you would get if you left this thread once in a while.

    You can call it ageism or what ever you want, but older/more experienced people, know that shit gets delayed, so they don't get all oh shit, we are never going to receive it over a delay, when there's precedent for it coming through, late although be it. We can quickly agree 3x or 4x is a lot and maybe too long, but as it's been said numerous times it will come and the best thing you can do is forget about it and be oh shit it's here when the mailman rings your doorbell, instead of freaking out over when it comes, its not like it's going out of style.

    Drew doesn't sit in a basement and sew all the jackets by himself, so what he spends his time doing isn't really relevant to the general production schedule, the only reason why its relevant is now that the guy who does the shipping is on leave, also with the company no longer taking orders, he needs to create some sort of income, if he didn't guess what.
     
    2 people like this.

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