TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by impolyt_one, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. kasakka

    kasakka Senior member

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    If I'm ever getting another TOJ, it would be exactly like that.
     
  2. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    We're not gonna make that jacket for regular people, and a material mix jacket is unlikely as well; this is gonna be an assholish response, but the reason being is that yes, it is true that I run something of a modern tailoring shop with the capacity to make custom things and MTM things, all the way to fully bespoke clothes - but the lines between everything are very thin if visible at all, and so I roll with the punches and only allow a few people to access the customizations, for certain reasons. The criterion basically boils down to this, I ask myself:

    a) does this person understand how bespoke/custom clothing works? not in theory, but in actual practice and experience? (for example, I considered gdl203 to be in this category, and he has some other stipulations for wanting off the menu looks, and so I allow him to access the custom shop)
    b) does this person understand how TOJ works, our work flow, our material selection and strengths, the general house style? (BEAR JEW, and again, gdl203, they and others qualify here.... but at the same time, having many TOJ's doesn't always guarantee (b)) - we get asked to make some really heinous stuff sometimes, and we just have to say 'no' because I don't want it ever rearing its head in public. If you went to a great tailor on Savile Row or somewhere in Napoli and asked for a 10-button NBA pimp suit, they'd also say they don't want to do it... When I let Charly go ahead on TOJ0's a couple years ago, and let people order whatever colors they wanted - there were a couple TOJ0's that got ordered that really shouldn't have been made. Ever seen the blue TOJ0 with solid white ribbing and brass snaps that some guy wears on sufu? I wish that was never made, in hindsight.
    c) related to the above, is this person a candidate for a custom? If they are anal and have a history of posting in the thread about nit-picky non-issues like zippers and design things, or seem like a custom that delivers maybe 95% of expectations rather than 100% would cause a significant mess in my thread, then the answer is automatically 'no' - this is also how a normal tailor shop rolls.
    To exemplify this idea, a few pages back I put down a description of the 4-zip MDR in a few preliminary words and described how it would be from a vision in my head - I was my own client in that sense - and then a few people took a crack at it with Photoshop, using just the written description to go by - all were similar and close, of course, but willy got closest to my original vision, by about 98% - there was a stray snap that I ended up deleting out to complete my idea. Anyway, that is pretty much how custom tailoring works - just a verbal or written description of something, pretty vague, and you hope it ends the way you want it to... but rarely goes 100% due to the limitations of working that way. To be someone to get a custom, I need to really know that you're a laid back person and understand this concept, parts a/b/c. My impression from the thread is that most probably do not, and to guarantee a great turnkey package with no issues, we stick to set styles for 99.99% of the customer base.
     
  3. pronxs

    pronxs Senior member

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  4. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    I think I have ordered and paid for- out of pocket, as a normal customer - 10 bespoke suits in my lifetime. Maybe more, seems like there were a lot. Anyway, most of those happened before TOJ was even conceived, and I had only the basic understanding of the custom clothing process that most people do, most everybody on styleforum would apply to this category. All of those suits? they were unwearable garbage, I got way too controlling of the process from fabric to fittings, and it hindered the makers from doing what they do best (making suits in their style) and I ended up with suits that were either not aesthetically pleasing, uncomfortable and mis-sized, or both. They were happy to take my money for an order, of course, but I didn't get what I wanted out of it. It was part my fault, part their fault for allowing me to order and not stopping me with their better judgement when it came to fabrics, fittings, the designs.
    To that, I later took that experience and said that when it comes to that point with TOJ, I'd just put my foot down and say the customer can't order such and such if I don't like the way it's gonna turn out. It saves a bit of heartache in the end, I feel. Better to be safe than sorry in this situation. There are other significant differences between how I work and how those bespoke suit shops work, but I differentiated and broke away from that mold from the outset because I knew where the weaknesses lie - to order something rather than pick it off the rack, there needs to be certain variables accounted for, and that is this...

    Anyway, later in this story, I went as a customer to the tailor that aeglus uses, a couple years into the existence of TOJ - and I found that once I had a grip on the ideas surrounding bespoke clothing - I was really just happy to let them cut their own style and merely fit me into it, and it worked so much better. I dictated a basic design, added some superfluous details like pickstitching and buttons, felting, things that wouldn't affect the outcome greatly, and then designed my own trousers (which are descendent of the TOJ beltless slims) to the inch - I finally got my satisfactory bespoke suit after a good 10 fails.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. IronKnochs

    IronKnochs Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    We're not gonna make that jacket for regular people
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  6. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    lol
     
  7. VLSI

    VLSI Senior member

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    Does this policy extend to previously tested/well accepted variations such as the artishard rider?
     
  8. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    that one, it came about innocently enough - artishard came up with a pretty convincing photoshop of something that could be made easily and well within the current limitations, and also said he'd buy it on the spot if it were possible - thus creating a 'collabo' artishard rider. I'd welcome other people to try the same if they want something that isn't currently offered. I don't necessarily endorse these 3rd party designs, because I have first-hand experience with how these materials interface and turn out, and so I make my own designs accordingly (4-zip MDR very much included in this statement, despite existing only as a Photoshop as of yesterday)
     
  9. istasi

    istasi Senior member

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    Knowing the thought process behind TOJ swagging people out is :slayer:
     
  10. Kajak

    Kajak Senior member

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    Glad the Artishard rider is available to the unwashed, unjawned masses since its one of the three my GF likes :embar:
     
  11. NotClever

    NotClever Senior member

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    Yeah, I have to say that it's a big reason I'm drawn to the brand. When I'm buying something I really prefer to know that the creator is confident enough in their work that they aren't willing to compromise. That in turn makes me confident that I can just give them my measurements and I will get an awesome product out because they understand exactly what to do with what I give them.

    Of course, I also have to know ahead of time that I don't need to give any direction on the look because I've seen enough of what they produce to trust that it will work, and this thread gives evidence for that in spades.

    I'm guessing I'm not alone in that at all, though.
     
  12. IronKnochs

    IronKnochs Senior member

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    Which seams are crucial in the CM for shape?

    The vertical seam down the back and the ones that run along the back of the arms?
     
  13. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    All of them (0)
     
  14. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    is this thing supposed to be green?
     
  15. impolyt_one

    impolyt_one Senior member

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    yes - and it may seem eccentric, arbitrary - but this is my attempt at keeping order while maintaining some level of fun too. I have doubts that TOJ will ever get to the setup where we just have an anonymous website and people click a color and size to checkout, that seems no fun to me.
     

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