"To Tie, or not to Tie", and subsequent collars

[Sukotto]

Good Afternoon,

I've got a situattion that I would like to put to you, which I feel is probably fairly common, but I haven't been able to find the answers too yet.

Firstly, I have come to the point were I need to get some new dress shirts (actually, I need a new wardrobe

, but we'll start here) simply because all my current ones are at least three years old and starting to show their wear.

Second, I work in an office environment where ties are worn about 50% of the time.

Basically what I'm trying to find out is what collar styles would go best with a fairly oval shaped face. What should I go for when I go tieless and what shape would be better with a tie.

Also, what shapes should I definitely avoid?

Many thanks,

Sukotto

 

[Manton]

"Oval" is not enough to go on. The wider and, um, softer your face, the better off you are with a straight point collar. Narrow, long faces look better with a spread. Soft faces really don't look great with a button down or a soft roll tab. The most important thing, in my view, is to make sure the collar height works with your neck. Long neck = high collar; short neck = low collar.

I am in the minority on this, but the only dress shirt collar I like sans tie is the button down. Nearly everyone else here disagrees, so listen to them.

 

[Sukotto]

Maybe heart(ish) shape would be more accurate as I'm kind of oval at the top, but have a bit of a pointed chin. Go figure...

As for collar height, my current one is 2 inches and it falls almost exacly half-way up my neck.

I've seen pictures of different collars and even one suggestion about face shapes to collar shape, but without some collars with heads attached I find it impossible to judge.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Although I don't pretend to be an expert on shirt making, Adam at paris shirts has repeatedly told me that a man can wear any collar if it's properly made and the dimensions are right for him. I suppose if youre really insecure, youd be worried about something other than a good fit and dimension but otherwise any man can wear any collar.

 

[Sukotto]

For some reason I was thinking that there some 'rules' to keep in mind, even if just as basic guides. Not entirely unlike the idea of "horizontal stripes may not be the best if you are feeling overweight".

Also, it's the tieless thing. I can't remember were I heard this, but I seem to remember seeing something about the long, pointed collars being good if you are going to go without a tie as they provide the feeling of 'something' being there, and they would probably look a bit silly if you tried to wear a tie with them. - or at least one of any size.

But then again, I'm the novice here, and I admit it freely.

Thanks,

Sukotto

 

[Manton]

Sukotto, this is always a fraught question; that is, whether certain styles (of collar, coat, etc.) work better with certain body types, or whether they don't. Certainly, it goes much too far to say that "If you are [heavy, thin, tall, short] then you MUST wear [X, Y, Z]." I don't think anyone believes that. However, some of us (me included) believe that in fact some garments DO work better with certain body types, and that men are better off knowing this, or at least hearing the argument, before making their own choice. It's unfortunate that this argument is often impugned as stemming from insecurity or some base motive, but each man must wrestle with his own demons, and I wish everyone success in the battle. If in the end you decide, for reasons of personal taste, that you prefer a style that is supposedly not perfect for your build, go for it. I don't always wear what I am "supposed" to wear for my build.

A 2" collar stand is quite high. If that reaches only halfway up your neck, you have a long neck indeed. You might want to go even higher than 2". Without seeing you, I can't be sure. As to "oval with a pointy chin," I'm not sure about that either. Off the top of my head, I would say a moderate spread, with a 90 degree or slightly wider opening, but that is something of a cop-out, as that shape works on almost everyone. It's the extremes -- the cutaway, and the really closed point -- that only work well with some.

Another thing to think about is the length of the collar points. In my view, most shirts sold today have points that are too short for most faces.

 

[mendel]

Originally Posted by Sukotto

Also, it's the tieless thing. I can't remember were I heard this, but I seem to remember seeing something about the long, pointed collars being good if you are going to go without a tie as they provide the feeling of 'something' being there, and they would probably look a bit silly if you tried to wear a tie with them. - or at least one of any size.

Generally, IMO, (regular) point collars work better without a tie than (regular) spread collars because the spread collar opens out to practically a straight line.

I would avoid particularly extreme pointed collars, with or without a tie, unless you're wearing them as clubwear or something. Or at least I would avoid extremes until you're comfortable deciding whether or not a collar is too extreme when you see it in the store.

 

[Sukotto]

That's to everyone for the input. I think that I will be staying away from the really wide spreads as they would probably limit my versatility. As for everything else, I guess I'll just do what we all knew I would have to do anyway, and that is to simply grab a few different kinds and try them on.

Thanks again,

Sukotto

 

[Newton]

Originally Posted by Manton

I am in the minority on this, but the only dress shirt collar I like sans tie is the button down. Nearly everyone else here disagrees, so listen to them.

I'm not a fan of button downs at all, personally.

On point collars, they don't look great with a tie, in my opinion - they rob a tie of its due visual worth. They look even worse without a tie - by attracting attention to the points.

All my shirts, casual, dress or business, are regular (or moderate) spread collars, and barring a brain explosion, that's the way things will remain.

 

[Newton]

Originally Posted by Manton

Off the top of my head, I would say a moderate spread, with a 90 degree or slightly wider opening, but that is something of a cop-out, as that shape works on almost everyone.


It's a happy medium.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

A well designed collar for an individual which is supposedly wrong for one's face is superior in my experience to a proper collar that is poorly designed.


Collars and face shapes seems more of an oft repeated urban legend than anything that's been actually researched. Any degree of difference speaks more to the preoccupation of an ideal outside one that mainstream men are or perhaps should be concerned with.

I cant remember ever seeing a collar type and thinking, that collar doesnt work with that person's face. Usually, I think that collar is too high or short; too tight or loose.


Some people like the resulting unscratchable itch they feel from liking something and denying to themselves based on a belief it isnt right for them. I think that's more of a personal template than one to be applied over a poor shirt collar and face.