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Patrick1053

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I MTO ed some boots in hatch grain leather. Toni said he would have to modify the pattern to the last I selected. That was 2 weeks ago, and now I already got a shipment notification!
 

Xune

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I MTO ed some boots in hatch grain leather. Toni said he would have to modify the pattern to the last I selected. That was 2 weeks ago, and now I already got a shipment notification!
Pretty please, share some pictures of the leather :)
 

MacGuffen

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What's the deal with Hatch grain leather anyway? Isn't it basically just pebble grain leather with a different pattern? Pros and cons vs. box calf and Vegano?
 

Patrick1053

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What's the deal with Hatch grain leather anyway? Isn't it basically just pebble grain leather with a different pattern? Pros and cons vs. box calf and Vegano?
"
  1. Hatch Grain (shown below) – This grain has taken the industry by storm in the last 10 years. It’s a softer grain all around and much more subtle than it’s pebble-like counterparts. Due to this softer nature, I personally find it more dressy or at least the ability to wear it with more dress attire whereas, for me, I see pebble grain as casual and hence why you often find that on boots or full brogues. But good old Hatch grain is found on all models, even smart oxfords or dressy loafers. It’s the new age grain that many customers seek but that is still somewhat rare to find as it has not fully caught on to being always on offer by all of the tanneries. The only downside is that I don’t believe this grain takes as much wear and tear as the others do."
https://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2019/05/a-guide-to-leather.html
Pebble looks more casual.
Carmina pebble calfskin derby in brown. Double leather sole with Dainite. |  Dress shoes men, Professional fashion, Oxford shoes


Hatch can be more formal. (it can be casual too)

DSC04465.jpg


There are also multiply kinds of hatch patterned leathers.

Russian reindeer: 'the' Russian reindeer leather, that was dug up from the bottom of the ocean in Plymouth. Almost unattainable, unless when you're a UK craftsman in need of a small amount. Please see here for more info:

J&Fj baker Russian Calf: Russian calf leather, tanned a way that is as close as possible to what they believe was the original tannage for the Russian reindeer leather. Very expensive, but wonderful leather. The smell is quite pungent, but typical for this type of leather. Also, the leather 'blooms' heavily when you don't use it (a layer of wax forms on top of the leather).

Horween Hatch Grain: so Hatch Grain by Horween is basically just a print, in this case the base for this leather is the Horween 'Pioneer' leather. It is a chrome tanned, then vacuum dried leather. Vacuum drying is simply drying the leather on a hot metal plate, while the moisture is sucked out of the leather in a vacuum chamber. The print is then rolled into the leather. This results in a finer breaking leather and smoother finish.

Horween Arlington with hatchgrain print: this exists in 3 colours, and it is true that this is sometimes used by Italian makers (it is available through a Horween agent in Milan). The difference between Arlington with hatch grain print and 'Hatch Grain' leather is the tanning. This is very technical but Arlington is toggle dried, a drying method that stretches the leather. The result is a less compact leather. The grain is more open, and the leather has a softer temper.

Utah: finally Utah, this is a completely vegetable tanned leather, stuffed with 9 different types of oil and fat (according to the tannery). The leather is very soft, and will age more naturally than the chrome tanned leathers above.
 

MacGuffen

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Thank you, that was an interesting read! I see Hatch grain is chrome tanned, though. Therefore it shouldn't really be polished the same way as normal calf? At least, that's what I've heard of other chrome tanned leather.
 

Jmr928

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You’re fine to polish hatch grain with conditioner, cream and wax. Unless you’re doing something super over the top in your normal routine it’ll be fine. It’s generally lower maintenance though.
 

Patrick1053

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Thank you, that was an interesting read! I see Hatch grain is chrome tanned, though. Therefore it shouldn't really be polished the same way as normal calf? At least, that's what I've heard of other chrome tanned leather.
I don't think so in this case. Chrome tanned is a very broad term, and covers a lot of very different leathers. Horween CXL is also chrome-tanned, and that obviously requires different care, but the hatch grain in question can be treated the same as most dress shoes IMO.
 

j ingevaldsson

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"
  1. Hatch Grain (shown below) – This grain has taken the industry by storm in the last 10 years. It’s a softer grain all around and much more subtle than it’s pebble-like counterparts. Due to this softer nature, I personally find it more dressy or at least the ability to wear it with more dress attire whereas, for me, I see pebble grain as casual and hence why you often find that on boots or full brogues. But good old Hatch grain is found on all models, even smart oxfords or dressy loafers. It’s the new age grain that many customers seek but that is still somewhat rare to find as it has not fully caught on to being always on offer by all of the tanneries. The only downside is that I don’t believe this grain takes as much wear and tear as the others do."
https://www.theshoesnobblog.com/2019/05/a-guide-to-leather.html
Pebble looks more casual.
Carmina pebble calfskin derby in brown. Double leather sole with Dainite. |  Dress shoes men, Professional fashion, Oxford shoes


Hatch can be more formal. (it can be casual too)

View attachment 1571349

There are also multiply kinds of hatch patterned leathers.

Russian reindeer: 'the' Russian reindeer leather, that was dug up from the bottom of the ocean in Plymouth. Almost unattainable, unless when you're a UK craftsman in need of a small amount. Please see here for more info:

J&Fj baker Russian Calf: Russian calf leather, tanned a way that is as close as possible to what they believe was the original tannage for the Russian reindeer leather. Very expensive, but wonderful leather. The smell is quite pungent, but typical for this type of leather. Also, the leather 'blooms' heavily when you don't use it (a layer of wax forms on top of the leather).

Horween Hatch Grain: so Hatch Grain by Horween is basically just a print, in this case the base for this leather is the Horween 'Pioneer' leather. It is a chrome tanned, then vacuum dried leather. Vacuum drying is simply drying the leather on a hot metal plate, while the moisture is sucked out of the leather in a vacuum chamber. The print is then rolled into the leather. This results in a finer breaking leather and smoother finish.

Horween Arlington with hatchgrain print: this exists in 3 colours, and it is true that this is sometimes used by Italian makers (it is available through a Horween agent in Milan). The difference between Arlington with hatch grain print and 'Hatch Grain' leather is the tanning. This is very technical but Arlington is toggle dried, a drying method that stretches the leather. The result is a less compact leather. The grain is more open, and the leather has a softer temper.

Utah: finally Utah, this is a completely vegetable tanned leather, stuffed with 9 different types of oil and fat (according to the tannery). The leather is very soft, and will age more naturally than the chrome tanned leathers above.
Good summary! There's a few others doing hatch grain as well, one of the most interesting ones I've seen is the actual hatch grained deerskin that AA Crack sells, veg tanned and looks very similar to the "original" one from Metha Cathalina:

 

Jmr928

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Any chance of a GMTO in the wild deer @j ingevaldsson? I know another maker is running one now but their lasts aren't one that I can pull off.
 

j ingevaldsson

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Any chance of a GMTO in the wild deer @j ingevaldsson? I know another maker is running one now but their lasts aren't one that I can pull off.
Maybe, we were actually just discussing this, see where it goes..
What model would you guys like to see that leather used for?
 

Jmr928

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Selfishly not chukkas since I've got a pair in the JFBaker which might be too close to duplicating for me. Maybe the 140? I can't remember if there's the ability to do mainline to Artista level but the Marvin could be appealing as well with a double sole or incas sole? The 135 might get a little too close to the existing horween hatch offering and double you up?
 

Patrick1053

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Selfishly not chukkas since I've got a pair in the JFBaker which might be too close to duplicating for me. Maybe the 140? I can't remember if there's the ability to do mainline to Artista level but the Marvin could be appealing as well with a double sole or incas sole? The 135 might get a little too close to the existing horween hatch offering and double you up?
Dang, that's crazy. We just said the same thing at the same time
 

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