Tightness in Upper Arms of Shirt and Suit Jacket - How to Fix?

[americanninja]

So I'm looking for an explanation on what causes the pulling effect on the upper arms of dress shirts and suit jackets. I have a few tailored shirts that has this happening, but the tailor says it's normal and if he changes anything it's gonna be baggy and not look good.

However, I'm wondering if this is correct and if there is a way to make it comfortable and look good.

More specifically, what I am referring to is when I lift my arms to grab something on a high shelf, or extend my arms to do things like wash my hands in a low sink or tie my shoes, the fabric of the shirt in the upper arm pulls really tight and cuts into the upper arm.

Does the bicep measurement just need to be taken out, or is this being affected by other things in the way the shirt is cut or the width of the back of the shirt, etc.

Bicep measurement example:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Here are some photos demonstrating what I am referring to:

 

[breakaway01]

Dude no need to start 5 threads on your fit issues. The answer for most of them is that your jackets and shirts are too tight in the shoulder and upper arm.

 

[americanninja]

Yes, I know this. But I'm looking to understand the specific issues with each section of the shirt or suit, and what should be modified to address each issue. They are distinct issues, if I were to post all on one thread, it would be too much and most likely, each point would not be addressed.

 

[breakaway01]

The only issue that is different is your pufffy lower shirt back post. All the rest have to do with overly tight upper arm and/or armhole. The shoulder divot issue is an overly small armhole (in the horizontal dimension) for your upper arm.

 

[breakaway01]

And if your tailor can't see this then you need a new tailor.

 

[americanninja]

And if your tailor can't see this then you need a new tailor.

Thanks for the advice. And yes, the tailor thing is an issue, I just don't have many options for what I want in the price range I want it. I have looked around, trust me, options are limited. This is the best shop for price and selection. And honestly, the darn shop is always busy with repeat customers. So I have no idea what the heck happened. I think the entire thing just might have started off wrong and we have been trying to fix it every since. Anyway, I'm planning to give it one more shot with a new suit and shirt starting off completely from scratch to see if I can get improved results the second time around. I'm just trying to understand and document as much of this information as possible, so that I am best prepared when I go in the second time around to go through the process. This has definitely been a learning experience, and because it's not a cheap one, I'd like to do all the research fully, this time around.

Thanks again, I have documented the arm hole feedback. So to fix the "vertical height", do I just ask the tailor to make the armhole bigger by 2-3cm or something like that. The only way I know to measure is based on this guide. Or do I ask for something else?

I really do appreciate the time taken to share your experience. Thanks!

 

[breakaway01]

Search for @jefferyd 's post on shoulder divots. I did not say that it was a problem with vertical height of the armhole. The shoulder divot happens because the armhole is collapsing vertically--it is not large enough horizontally for your upper arm. At least this is how I understand it; I am not a tailor.

 

[americanninja]

Sorry, yeah, I meant to say horizontal. Hmmm, I assume the half armhole dimension would just capture the overall diameter dimension of the armhole. i guess the horizontal width would depend on how the hole is cut. I guess this is something the tailor would need to "get", in order to make this work. I'll check the other post by Jeffrey. Thanks!

 

[GBR]

You tell the tailor of your concern, ask for his suggestions, you don't insult him by telling him what to do however much you feel he might need guidance. Were I he, I'd put you out of my shop for presuming to tell me how to cut the garment. Trouble on two feet is something every trader can well do without - you seem to be in that category with these obsessive posts.

What you have not made clear in any of the five posts on the same subject is whether you are paying for full bespoke or merely MTM. The latter uses a standard block pattern tweaked to your measurements within the limitations of its dimensions and cut. There may well be reasons why this is an approximation, it may be possible to get nearer your ideal but full bespoke is the only sure way. Don't be fooled by 'custom' that is generally a term used for MTM to give the sap commissioning the garment warmer feelings.

 

[Kuro Kujikiri]

Oops...double posted...

 

[Kuro Kujikiri]

The only additional advice that I can share is that some tailors, even the most highly skilled ones (just like a lot of other normal people) could be arsed to just do about enough to get away with whatever standards that he thinks you might have. There are probably a dozen or so truly exceptional tailors around the world who are highly skilled AS WELL AS highly professional. My tailor who makes my jackets falls into this category.

But, I recently got half a dozen bespoke shirts made by one of the most famous bespoke shirtmakers in Australia. He is even highly regarded here on SF, and he has made shirts for a past Prime Minister here - and his shirts don't come cheap.

The 1st fitting took around 2 weeks. When I tried the "shirt" on, I was absolutely disgusted. It was so tight that when I sat down, my belly bulged out and stretched the shirt into some kind of triple spare tyre caricature shape. This was despite me having anticipated this issue and mentioning that because of my body shape, I do not want anything remotely tight-fitting while he was taking my measurements at the initial consultation. He tried to dismiss my dissatisfaction by giving me the same excuses that your tailor gave you: "...this is normal, it has to fit like that to look like a properly bespoke-tailored shirt, it will look really messy if I add more fabric and make it loose, blah blah blah..." He wanted to add a miserly 1 cm here in some one particular precious spot or something like that but I told him that I thought it needed more like 5 cm all over everywhere except for the collar and the shoulders and sleeve length and wrists which were practically the only places that actually fit.

The 2nd fitting took another 1 week or so to be ready. When I tried this shirt on, I actually started to feel angry on the inside. It was a tiny little bit better than the 1st fitting but it was still constricting across the tummy and the chest and I had to pull about 10 cm of the shirt back up from being properly tucked into my trousers, in order to get enough fabric to cover up the triple spare tyre "bespoke-tailored fitted" look.

It was time to bring out my tailoring knowledge to show him exactly how to do his proper job. I told him he needed to change his pattern so that my shirt flares out to accommodate my pregnant belly shape, and I lifted my arms up to show him how the arm holes needed to be about 6 cm higher so that the fabric wasn't pulling on one of the shirt buttons on the chest. Wow, now he knew I wasn't a complete farktard and so he told me the shirt will be ready the very next day at the same time if I can make it in again for the 3rd (!?!) fitting. I was actually highly dubious at this point in time but I thought about the juicy open-fire grilled mulloway fish wings at Firedoor restaurant and managed to stay civil.

I went back the next day and the shirt was absolutely 100% perfect. All negative, hateful feelings were completely dispelled. My face beamed with a wide and joyful grin on it. Happy, happy, happy...

In hindsight, he was probably palming off some "made-to-measure" job on me, thinking that I'm as dumb as I am fat. Because I am just starting to recover from a lot of severe health problems over the past 2 years, none of my old clothes fit me anymore, so I went into his shop for the first time wearing just an old tracksuit looking like a fat slob. But, once he knew that I knew what I was talking about, THEN he was arsed to bring out his genuine artisanal tailoring skills to work for me.

 

[americanninja]

Thanks for the detailed write up Kuro! Much more helpful than some on this forum. You kind of wish there was a mute button for unhelpful, arrogant people, that simply make way too many assumptions. You gotta figure, if they have enough time to keep posting on threads that they don't like, they must not have much to do.

Sorry, I digress...it's refreshing to read your post. It's also exactly why I had posted this series of posts on styleforum. In the past 8 years, I think I have tried out roughly 7 or 8 tailors, from the cheaper 300$ a suit to the expensive 1-3k $ a suit, and sadly the experience was not much different. And that just sucks, when you pay 3-10x the amount of money.

Each time the suit came back way to tight, restrictive, too large, etc. Once, I even left a suit with the tailor and just told him to copy it and ship it to me (as I didn't have enough time in town to do another fitting). I couldn't believe it when the suit arrived, both the pants and jacket were like 4cm bigger in every measurement. I ended up leaving it a the hotel and told him to pick it up and I would email him my measurements. Surprisingly, he remade the suit exactly to my measurements and it fit perfectly. Unfortunately, it was a Shanghai tailor and the quality of the stitching and general internal materials used (like the inside lining, buttons, clips, etc.) were complete ****. So I have not yet ordered another suit from him. I'm not willing to risk another 400 bucks.

But as you mention, of course, all the tailors would give the same bullshit response about my complaints on being too big here, or too restrictive there, etc. Same same. Anyways, I think I relatively know enough about how a suit should fit and the measurements I am, but not enough about how to say what to adjust and in which way to get that perfect fit. As I mentioned, I have now measured a few of my suits and come up with what I think is the best measurements for the best fit for me (which is the set of measurements I sent to the Shanghai tailor). I'm now just trying to figure out how I can get a closer fitting suit in the back and upper arms without sacrificing comfort and arm movement.

Honestly, I don't think one should have to know all these things and this much information, that's what you pay the so called expert to know. That's why they are called skilled trades people. But it's the same these days with plumbing, house renovations, your car mechanic, etc. It seems the average person in these trade is **** to average at best. It's almost like you have to teach yourself enough about these trades to where you are almost doing it yourself. At least if you want perfection and quality. They only seem to do that for themselves and their friends. Nobody cares about giving 100% in their job anymore it seems.

So for the past 4 months, I had tried 3 different tailors to see how the experience varied and I decided to go through and measure my suits. From the different experiences and the different results, I came up with the 5 posts, which I posted to Styleforum, to get answers and insights, as they are the only things I have yet to really figure out the science behind. I probably should have posted these to a tailor forum or something. hah. As I'm more trying to learn the trade at this point and the science behind fit, as opposed to the basics of what a suit should look like. In the end, it does seem like I need to find a better tailor who understands how to properly fit a suit and shirt on me, it's just exhausting to do this, and the guy I have has been more than helpful and patient. I would feel bad to ditch him at this point. Maybe in the end, I will just have to settle and go with my Japanese tailor and pay double the price. So far, the result are the best with him, just double the price, half the selection, and LONG lead times (2-3 months for a suit and 2 months for a shirt - crazy). I was just hoping to find a more reasonable price with faster lead time (like in HK). But hey, the old adage of, you get what you pay for, is still spoken today for a reason.

Well, thanks again for your post, I found it helpful and it's good to know that others have a similar experience.