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Tie space in dress shirt collars

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by JLA, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. JLA

    JLA Active Member

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    I know this is silly but,
    Some dress shirts seem to have a perfectly mitered collar (no tie space).
    Others seem to have a space. Where can I find the shirts with no space? I hate the shirt collar material showing from the top of the tie knot.

    Thanks
     
  2. gregory

    gregory Senior member

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    I think H&K cutaway shirts have a slightly negative tie space, which I happen to think is rather attractive.
     
  3. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    Brioni, Borrelli, Kiton, Marol, Fray, Barba and Lorenzini make their collars with 0" tie space.  To me it seems that American makers are the ones who tend to make some of their collars with tie space.
     
  4. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  5. DandySF

    DandySF Senior member

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    The tie allowance in shirt collars has vexed me until I started ordering shirts from Jantzen. You can specify no space for the tie. It makes for an infinitely cleaner union of tie knot and shirt collar.
     
  6. uppercase

    uppercase Senior member

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    I too am driven crazy by shirt material showing above the tie knot. What causes that and how to get the tie cinched right so no shirt material shows??
     
  7. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  8. uppercase

    uppercase Senior member

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    well, I've got a few shirts from T&A, Borreli, Kiton, etc but the problem remains.
    the tie knot regularly slips down and the hated gap appears.
    I wonder if I am not tightening the knot enough; or using the wrong tie knot (4 inhand) for the collar style; I wonder if the interlining in the shirt collar is too stiff (particularly in T&A) and that it is "pushing" the tie knot down. It might be poor ironing of the collar as well - the shirt material above the collar button regularly wants to curl forward.
    Some tie materials slip down more easily than others as well contributing to the problem.
    I don't know....but it makes for a sloppy appearance.
     
  9. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    If it's only a little bit of a gap, say 1/4"-3/8", try moving and resewing the button. Any larger and it will throw off the placket, but it does work fine for a small gap, at least until you can get all your shirts made to order.
     
  10. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Oh, sorry, I misread the question. I thought you meant a gap in circumference. The trick with a gap above the knot is to make sure the tie is lined up all the way to the top of the collar band before folding the collar down, and also to make sure the collar band is tall enough to accomodate the tie. If you have a wide tie and the collar band is short it will naturally push the knot down and show a gap above. Actually I think that may be part of the reason for the kludgy 'tie gap' workaround built into many shirts- people thought tall enough collars were uncomfortable, probably.
     
  11. uppercase

    uppercase Senior member

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    Yes, J, I think cinching the tie right up tight to the top of the collar , before folding the collar down, does help. Also, probably getting the right neck size (quite snug) contributes to keeping the knot cinched up there. But sometimes you just keep tightening and tightening the knot all day long until you choke off your blood supply and the tie still keeps slipping down, revealing the gap... [​IMG]
     
  12. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Then it's time to take out the double-stick carpet tape and apply it to the inside of your tie, wrap it around your neck, tie it and call it a day. Or go to clip-ons, I guess.

    I think a more substantial collar band (interlining wise) will definitely help - at least it won't get so rumpled when you cinch the tie up tight. I'm not sure; to be honest, I've never had this problem. And you're right about the ultra stiff collars pushing the tie down. I think that's why people started using collar pins and tabs, etc.
     
  13. OnTheMark

    OnTheMark Member

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    John on "The Apprentice" has a chronic problem with this...he is very "to the manor born" and a really sharp dresser, probably has the highest quality suits and accessories besides Raj. But his bold Windsor knots are always slipping down-you can see this on every episode and in his publicity shots: http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Apprentic...tes/john.shtml You'd think a good photographer and stlylist would have picked up on this. There are a lot of other shots of him floating around with the big gap, if I were him I would be embarrased to be so de-dappered in front of such a wide audience.
     
  14. JLA

    JLA Active Member

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    At first I thought it was the quality of the shirts I was buying.
    But after buying several in the 100.00 range, I found that wasn't it. In fact I have seen people on TV wearing cheap junk with no gap. Then I thought my shirts were too small. I went up 1/2 size, same result. So next I will try custom in NYC.
    Thanks for the replies...
     
  15. arvi

    arvi Senior member

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    wow..always thought i was alone in this area of concern..my wife has always marveled and complained about how i fuss with my tie knot to ward off the dreaded gap..i have found that going up 1/2 collar size helps because a too tight neck will always result in gap..also ,thicker ties knot better and some fabrics slip more.. i've bought shirts in all price ranges fron under $100 t0 $200+...i think the answer truly lies in a collar design that allows for the bulk of a knot to fit and remain in place..best thing to do is try on shirt with tie in the store before purchasing or go custom-made..
     
  16. Cesare

    Cesare Member

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    You actually wear ties with button-downs?
     
  17. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  18. Cesare

    Cesare Member

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    (Cesare @ 09 Oct. 2004, 07:52) You actually wear ties with button-downs?
    Sure. Â Doesn't everybody? Â (OK, not the English. Â But everybody else . . .)
    Well, maybe it's a cultural thing. But in Europe it isn't done since a BD is an informal shirt and a tie of course is formal. So the combination , to us, is a bit odd [​IMG]
     
  19. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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