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Tie basics 101

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Ennius, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Balfour

    Balfour Senior member

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    ^ I've got a lot of respect for your posts, AL. I'm only putting forward my own opinion as well. I just associate grenadine with a higher level of formality and as a result struggle with the idea that it should be paired with a casual odd jacket. Blazer and greys - one notch down from a smooth worsted lounge suit - yes. Otherwise, not so much. Fully concede this is because of the associations grenadine has for me, rather than any objective aesthetic quality it has.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  2. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    ^ You may well be right about the associations (though most people today just see a tie with texture / surface interest and probably have no clue that this is an issue) and you definitely have a valid point. I think it probably comes down to whether one thinks aesthetics or traditional associations take priority and one can go either way on that. I happen to go for the former in this case, though there are definitely other issues in the MC realm where I'd say traditional associations trump aesthetics (especially with formalwear). I probably would also wear grenadines less often with odd jackets if I had a larger collection of wool ties.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. YRR92

    YRR92 Senior member

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    There's also the grossa vs. fina issue to consider: can't say I have much nice to say about garza fina with tweed, but garza grossa is a different matter.
     
  4. the_sulks

    the_sulks Senior member

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    You're probably right. Thanks. My tailor doesn't make alterations in the neck. She says it is too difficult.
     
  5. the_sulks

    the_sulks Senior member

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    ^ I used to wear a tie of that length but now I assume it is a bit too long. Tie should end where belt begins. They should not overlap. It is especially true if you are high (say 6 foot or higher). Here is the perfect length: [​IMG] Do you think that Mr.Specter on my picture has trousers that sit low and a man above Mr.Specter has trousers that sit high? I mean if your trousers sit high your tie may overlap the belt. If low - should not. Do you agree?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  6. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    ^ I suspect Manton is wearing higher rise trousers than the person in the picture you posted. Also keep in mind that tie length can appear to vary a bit based on one's posture and even camera angle, so a correct length can appear a little bit long in some cases. If you do have higher rise trousers, I think there is a bit more flexibility for overlap in the belt area (though IMO if you're within say 0.5 inches of the correct length you can call it a day).
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. mfridman

    mfridman Well-Known Member

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    Having watched all Suits episodes to date, I must say that Mr. Specter is not the best example when it comes to someone wearing a tie. His knots are ginormous and his tie length is usually too short, judging by the SF standards.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Count de Monet

    Count de Monet Senior member

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    I learned to give great weight to Balfour's opinions expressed on the forum. However - and as I may have typed "upstream" in this thread - I believe the texture of a grossa in a solid color makes it acceptable for both suits and sportcoats.

    In fact, once when wearing my navy Hober with a suit, my wife opined it was "too rough" to wear with a suit. So everyone has an opinion. :)

    As for me, my four solid grossas are among my most versitile ties I own.
     
  9. the_sulks

    the_sulks Senior member

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    His knots are perfect. Keep in mind his spread collar shirts and peaked lapels. His tie length is not short since he has as it seems a low rise trousers. He is a style icon of modern day.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  10. sultan22

    sultan22 Active Member

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    Could I please get some feedback on the choice of tie and the tie knot please?

    The shirt is navy/white gingham check.
    The tie is a wool chocolate brown.
    The blazer is linen/cotton mix with patch pockets.

    1. Is the tie appropriate for this setting?

    2. The knot is 4-in-hand. Does the knot look ok?
    Is the dimple correct?

    Thanks in advance for your feedback.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    ^ Off hand, I'd say that wool ties are more appropriate for Fall / Winter and linen or linen / cotton jackets for Spring / Summer, so you have some seasonal discord there (a brown linen tie would be fine). The knot itself seems fine from what I can tell. That square is far too matchy with your shirt and I think this look would work a lot better with a light blue gingham shirt in any event.
     
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  12. sultan22

    sultan22 Active Member

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    @archibaldleach Thank you very much for the advise.
    I'm looking to get a few linen ties (I have none atm).
    I too felt the navy ginham checks were too contrasty to the point of over powering me.
    Agreed on the PS.

    Thanks again!
     
  13. Balfour

    Balfour Senior member

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    I agree with what Archibald Leach said. I would add that it is a much greater sin to wear suit trousers too low than to have a bit of overlap of tie and trouser band. And I'm not sure a slight overlap is really a problem - if the tie comes down to your crotch, that is not elegant, but otherwise one can be too precious about such things.

    Manton's picture is no doubt explained by camera angle, but even if not I far prefer what I have seen of Manton's wardrobe to that on Suits.

    Harvey wears a suit typically with a horrendously exaggerated silhouette. The suit equivalent of a 'penis car'. His ties are generally tied with a vulgar over-sized knot that in England would immediately make one think "barrow-boy".

    I do like Harvey's restrained colour palette but Manton's monochromatic blazer fit is infinitely superior, as is Francis Underwood's wardrobe in the first season of House of Cards.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  14. Balfour

    Balfour Senior member

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    I know these are not your questions, but:

    1. That shirt is not appropriate to be worn with a tailored jacket. You need a much more restrained check.

    2. Never pattern-match the pocket square and shirt in that way.

    WIth that collar (in a different shirt), a four-in-hand would work okay (and better than anything 'fatter').
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
    2 people like this.
  15. sultan22

    sultan22 Active Member

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    Appreciate your feedback very much.
    The PS was a mistake. Well you live and learn :).
     
  16. bradp

    bradp Senior member

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    I would add that the dimple looks good--that's not an item I would put too much emphasis on getting "right." It's a matter of personal taste.
     
  17. sultan22

    sultan22 Active Member

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  18. jedwards

    jedwards Senior member

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    I'm thinking of getting some bespoke cappelli ties.

    There is the option for 3-5-7 fold alongside your length and width options.

    While I understand what this means in practice, I have to be honest I don't really understand what the 'point' of these additional folds (anything more than a 3) are?

    Am I missing something obvious?

    Cheers
     
  19. Cleav

    Cleav Senior member Moderator

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    Jed, I dug this out from @Sam Hober as I couldn't put it better and I remembered he nailed it.

    With a custom made tie there will be little or no difference in your knot because everything is taken into consideration and adjusted when your pattern is designed. So the tie will not typically make a better knot. A 6 or 7-fold will all things being equal be thicker and drape better than a 3-fold. All constructions hold up over time equally well with only a few exceptions. a 4-fold grenadine or other loose weave will be more durable as the rear seam is stronger with an even number of folds. Then there is the fascination with the craft of making 6 and 7-fold ties which is interesting in the same way that a complicated watch is.

    I have Cappelli ties and rate them v highly fwiw

    best,

    Cleav
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. jedwards

    jedwards Senior member

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    Ah ok, thanks, so it's more of a cosmetic artisanal thing than anything else.
    I tend to like a fairly slim knot anyway, so looks like I should stick with the 3.

    I go bespoke so I can go a bit longer.
     
    1 person likes this.

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