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Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by drizzt3117, Sep 9, 2004.
Is this being sold by Carlo or just somebody who really liked his layouts and formatting?
why buy a used suit (even a Bijan) when you can buy a 100% brand new Attolini, Brioni, etc. on Ebay for the same price or less? Also, note that the color of the big picture suggests a blue/gray suit, whereas the actual color (as described, and as shown in the fabric cut-out) is more of a dark beige/taupe/brown. Finally, there have been people selling Bijan suits on Ebay for awhile. This one is priced quite high in comparison. Some of those were clearly made by Kiton (based on the fabric label on the inside pocket); others, such as this one apparently, it's unclear who made it.
Frankly, the $15,000 bit is ridiculous, even if that was the original asking price at retail.
That dude ripped off Carlo's design.
I think they're the same seller. Note that Carlo is based out of Dallas and Rome, and that if you look at this seller's other auctions you'll see that he lists Dallas and Italy for the item locations.
It seems like it would be too much trouble to go to the effort of ripping off a pretty complex layout like that were someone lazy and looking for a quick formatting option. Besides, it's not like everybody has multiple Bijan suits lying around in inventory.
Of course, I could be wrong, and I'm sure Carlo will post to clarify this matter eventually.
Chuck posted over on Andy's site about this - if Ask Andy was working, I'd find the thread.
I think Chuck said that the seller contacted him and asked if he could borrow the HTML for his auction format.
You'll notice that although the auction format is the same, the photography is quite different.
Photography is different? They look nearly identical to me. Here's a Sartorialsolutions Kiton suit auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....9465037
Suitsolutions4u has focusing issues, he's very inclined to photograph his mannequins front-on as opposed to a slight angle, and Chuck almost exclusively uses Carlo Franco shirts and ties in his shots, while the other seller uses a seemingly random assortment.
EDIT: And SS4U doesn't dimple his ties very well, either, which bugs me a little bit.
They may very well have some kind of working relationship, but they're not the same guy.
This seller hired Chuck to show him how to make auctions. That's the affiliation. They aren't doing a bad job, though they have a ways to go in the knowledge dept. - the auction is somewhat confusing and contradictory.
SS4U is a stand up guy folks. If there is any mistake in an ad of his I would bet you it was completely unintentional. He did hire me to help him show his stuff better because he wasn't happy with the way his ads looked and he wants to be very good at what he does for a living. He also has a kick arse stockroom with some really nice items and is a straight shooter - give him a little bit of a break >>>and i was well paid for teaching him a few tricks about HTML, photo editing, lighting and photography so I had a hand in the templates. ...it's kinda no-win sometimes as a seller, I get emails all the time from people who say I'm using the designer's stock photos and they want to see the real suit until I ask them to look at our other stuff and note that every designer out there uses "Woody" as his model and uses my shirts and ties as display accessories (Man that would be soooooooo cool!
Interesting - he called Bijan and they claim that they not only design their garments but have thier own production facility in Italy and have never had any relationship with Kiton or D'avenza or anyone else.
...I say BS since I've seen Kiton labels in some.
The only thing I can find is a NY court case where they wanted full value for an insurance claim and did not get it because they admitted that they do the design and specification but do not physically produce the garments - thus the value was that of production. Thier claim was that 90% of value is the design and specification and the court said bulldinkies.
I can see why they make the claim (ie, they claim they do not charge $20k for a $5K suit) and I am sure they have the production facility sworn to secrecy (as I do with my own) but now I am curious....
Will try to make some calls to Italy and see if anyone can spill some beans on this.
FWIW - side by side comparison shows definately the same exact labeling (minus the Bijan) and exactly the same tailoring/dimensions...
That's their story, and I'm sure they are stickin to it, but really, it's childs play to prove otherwise. If they are going to claim they make their own stuff, they should commision their own labeling, instead of the standard Brioni, Isaia, D'Avenza etc. stuff in the suits. Too late though, as I have the pics to prove it Even then, the detaling of the suits would give it away... Imagine the PR nightmare - '$7500 markup for D'Avenza suit with Bijan label'
That's pretty much my take as well Andrew, you are paying $11000 for the lobby and champagne and $4000 for the suit.
Either way - great stuff if you can pick them up secondhand.
I'm not sure how many suits they sell per day out of their two stores but let's think about it - if they sell 4-5 each day I suppose they could conceivably run a small shop of their own but c'mon... do they weave the fabric and make their own Bemberg too?
Maybe they farm their own sheep too.
If ya believe that, i have this wonderful beach house in Pensacola to sell ya...
Well, since they are more or less made to order by these subcontractors, are they made to a higher standard then their own product lines? Or do you think they are more or less equivalent to Kiton's own products?
Drizz - laid side by side I can't find a difference between the Kiton for Kiton and the Kiton for Bijan. Any difference would be stylistic rather than in terms of quality - the same guy does the shoulder on both lines, same cutters, same lady sews on the buttons...
This is normal - as a designer you go with a subcontracter for construction most of the time. You pick your fabrics, you sit down with them and go over any details you want etcetera. This is PRECISELY what Jill and I are doing with our trouser line right now. You define what you want, go through 3-4 prototypes and then once it is what you want you have the fabrics delivered and the garments made.
...and among the production facilities there is as much cooperation as competition between the Neapolitan firms.
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