This Reflexive Black Suit Aversion Bugs Me!

[rach2jlc]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Snarking.


- B

Well, I'm glad SOMEBODY is taking up the mantle; the conspicuous absence of teh Manholebearpig is getting me down.

 

[Lel]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

To be honest, if you posted this in the WAYWT I would not have guessed the suit was black, more like a variation of gray. I have seen tons of dark navy/charcoal suits that look darker than that. Maybe it's the lighting, but it doesn't strike me as a black suit.

In all honesty I rather like the black suit as an option for formal wear. My reasoning? I think that a black suit, dressed as a suit (IE: tie, etc) is a much better alternative than what you see normally, 3 button notch lapel "tuxedos" worn with ties. I would much rather have someone wear a well fitted black suit as a suit than either a tuxedo worn as a suit or worse, a rental tuxedo.

Outside of SF, the overwhelming majority of what the public see's as "formal events" (mostly Prom and what they see in Hollywood such as the Red Carpet) involves hideous 2 or 3 button notch lapel tuxedos worn with ties and bright pocket squares. Believe it or not, this has become the normal perception of what a "tuxedo" is to many, many people so much that I have even had someone come up to me, point to my cummerbund and ask what it is. Ridiculous.

Tell me, what separates a 2 button notch lapel tuxedo with a tie than a 2 button notch lapel suit with a tie to a formal function? The "shininess" of the lapel? The stripe on the pants? I have seen countless "tuxedos" without those two details so for me, what's the difference? I'd rather not blur the line between tuxedo and suit and to sartorially rationalize it, a black suit is better than a "tuxedo suit".

 

[grimslade]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

It seems those who do not like the black suit are far more concerned about it. Unless you are going to wear the suit amongst SF members, you shouldn't find any social obstacles to it.

Yes, let's all buy tracksuits and be done with it.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Lel

To be honest, if you posted this in the WAYWT I would not have guessed the suit was black, more like a variation of gray. I have seen tons of dark navy/charcoal suits that look darker than that. Maybe it's the lighting, but it doesn't strike me as a black suit.

It is, indeed, black, although not as unfathomly black as a different black fabric that I had used in a dinner suit. It shows that a smoothly finished black has reflective tones that soften its severity...which is a good reason to avoid such smoothly finished blacks in dinnerwear.

Originally Posted by Lel

In all honesty I rather like the black suit as an option for formal wear. My reasoning? I think that a black suit, dressed as a suit (IE: tie, etc) is a much better alternative than what you see normally, 3 button notch lapel "tuxedos" worn with ties. I would much rather have someone wear a well fitted black suit as a suit than either a tuxedo worn as a suit or worse, a rental tuxedo.

Let's start by hoping that a guy will own a well-fitting, nicely made dinner suit.

If your means preclude this, however, but do not for, some reason, preclude having a nicely made black suit, I suppose it could be okay to wear that suit if your only alternative was a tuxedo that fits poorly or has informal features. It would depend on how common a suit was at your evening event...many today do, indeed, fail at the conistent presence of black tie.

A lot depends on whether you are inherently debonair or not. If not, convention is still your savior.


- B

 

[_AMD]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Snarking.


- B

And he has a strangle hold on the entire industry.

Aaron

 

[Metlin]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

A lot depends on whether you are inherently debonair or not.
But of course.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by grimslade

Yes, let's all buy tracksuits and be done with it.

Tracksuits are too constructed, too formal, too suit-y.


- B

 

[Parker]

One of the reasons the black suit gets dissed is because it is too harsh a color (actually, non-color) for daylight. IMO, black is difficult to pair with other colors and it washes out a lot of skin tones. Almost always dark gray would look better. Though Vox pulled it off quite well.

To me, the black suit looks best at night, paired with other non-color neutrals (white, gray, black). A good evening option when black tie is not called for, or when you just want that high-contrast, sharp look. It looks even better if you have darker features.

 

[Lel]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Let's start by hoping that a guy will own a well-fitting, nicely made dinner suit.

If your means preclude this, however, but do not for, some reason, preclude having a nicely made black suit, I suppose it could be okay to wear that suit if your only alternative was a tuxedo that fits poorly or has informal features. It would depend on how common a suit was at your evening event...many today do, indeed, fail at the conistent presence of black tie.

A lot depends on whether you are inherently debonair or not. If not, convention is still your savior.

- B

For people with money and taste, owning a nicey made dinner jacket is a must. Unfortunately most people don't even own well fitting, nicely made suits so what are the chances that they would go out and purchase a quality DJ for events that they will likely only attend a few chances in their lifetime?

Maybe it's just me, because I'm young and normal, and grew up in a town and not a city, but looking respectable in traditional black tie is a fantasy for most. The vast majority of people around my age do not even own a suit, and the ones who do only own the generic 3 button, notch lapel black suit because they have no other perception of a "normal suit" so they flock to Macys/Mensware House and purchase whatever generic garbage sales people push onto them.

Even for me, owning a tuxedo is now a fantasy that I won't be able to achieve for a very long time. It's simply impractical for most people to go out and spend the $500-1000 for a quality tuxedo that they will wear several times maximum in their lifetime. While I realize that the SF demographic is different from my experiences, the majority of people will never attend enough black tie events to justify the cost of a tuxedo.

So, that leaves two options (in my eyes). The first is going to a rental shop, which is what many people do and to be honest, there are few things I hate more than rental tuxedos. Believe me, at Prom all I ever see is a sea of variations of the tuxedo with bright flashing combinations of pink (clip-on) ties with matching bright pink pocket squares and they look terrible. Rentals never look good, I dare someone to prove me wrong on that.

The second option, which seems despised on SF, is to wear a suit to formal functions. Let me tell you, unless you live in a city, finding stores that sell quality tuxedos is very difficult. In a town where most people go to Macys/Men's Warehouse for dress clothes, finding a slim fitting suit is hard enough. But for that small niche of people who want to look good and can't afford a tuxedo, there exists options for slim fitting suits online, not many, but it's possible. And then after Prom, you can still wear your (black!) suit for the very few occasions that most people my age will need them.

And no, no one is ever going to be biased against you if you wear a black suit for dress reasons because through my own experiences, people buy and wear black suits. Walk into any generic mall store (Macys, Sears, etc) and you will find racks and racks of black suits and people buying them up because they believe it's the standard suit color. So a black suit, for the majority of people, is actually very practical and functional.

I would much prefer someone wear this to Prom




than this




Forget the rules, I would rather "break" them and look presentable than "follow" them and look terrible.

PS: I realize I may come off as sounding strong in my post but one reason is because in an older thread I suggested a black suit as an option for a formal event and suddenly I had to defend myself against more posters than I could, so I just ignored the thread without fully being able to discuss my points.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Parker

One of the reasons the black suit gets dissed is because it is too harsh a color (actually, non-color) for daylight. IMO, black is difficult to pair with other colors and it washes out a lot of skin tones. Almost always dark gray would look better. Though Vox pulled it off quite well. To me, the black suit looks best at night, paired with other non-color neutrals (white, gray, black). A good evening option when black tie is not called for, or when you just want that high-contrast, sharp look. It looks even better if you have darker features.

The only place the "black suit" gets dissed is online, and even then only by a handful of know it alls who demonstrate a lack of understanding about clothing. Although some robust debate is always appreciated, I inevitably see the anti-black suit mob work themselves to a froth. Too much energy spent vs. the effect it will have. The black suit is a huge seller and men like it. If someone wants to walk around telling them they're doing it wrong, I'm sure they will get a reaction.

 

[Holdfast]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Snarking.

The only growth industry left.

 

[grimslade]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

The only place Kenneth Coles get dissed is online, and even then only by a handful of know it alls who demonstrate a lack of understanding about clothing. Although some robust debate is always appreciated, I inevitably see the anti-Kenneth Cole mob work themselves to a froth. Too much energy spent vs. the effect it will have. Kenneth Cole shoes are a huge seller and men like them. If someone wants to walk around telling them they're doing it wrong, I'm sure they will get a reaction.

Fixed.

 

[AR_Six]

^Bonus points for the newly developed pun on "reaction".

 

[James Bond]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

The black suit is a huge seller and men like it.

This also applies to Crocs and sweatpants.

 

[Douglas]

OK, I'll bite.

My biggest problem with the black suit is that it is too often misconstrued as the one suit every man should own. It is not. If you already own a bunch of suits, and you can afford one as tastefully done and impeccably tailored as the bespoke one vox has on, sure, go ahead, have fun. But the truth is that the shade just doesn't look good on most people's complexions, and the black fabrics available to most mere mortals look abysmal in full daylight.

The black suit has also taken on a movie gangster connotation that I find ignorant and distasteful. It is, quite frankly, most likely at the root of all the compliments vox alluded to.

I don't own a black suit, and I probably never will... though I do own a black sportcoat.