This just really angers me

[johnnynorman3]

This guy is passing off Zegna "Tessutos" and people are just buying them like hotcakes -- especially in this poor auction. Rip-off I wonder if Ebay would put a stop to this if they were aware of these shenanigans.

 

[Wick]

I agree -- that's a total con job. I've seen others, too, like this one (although, this one is not quite as offensive as Brandmaniac): Zegna? Suit

 

[johnnynorman3]

How about this one? Zegna Soft Look at how he promotes this.

 

[FIHTies]

I will not suggest or recommend that this morally correct on the sellers part as he knows what he is doing by scamming the clueless buyers, however it doesnt really bother me that this guy is getting away with that for the simple reason that if a customer knows his brands he wont fall for the scam, whereas if some poor dumb clod is looking to own a suit that is a "Zegna" he will feel wonderful having bought this "bargain". WHen the buyer thinks is this a "zegna" suit? He can comfortably reassure himself that Sure it is. Says right there in the label, "Tessuto" EZ. (here's to hoping he doesnt get a hold of an Italian Dictionary and see Tessuto means Fabric) Is it the sellers responsibility to warn the clods that its not designed and constructed by EZ? I think not. This may sound not nice but there are many people that think that this is Zegna and are perfectly happy with this bargain, not because they want a Zegna design and construction, because they are clueless as the the various constructions, but cause they want the Zegna name and lo and behold, written on the label is EZ. Ebay cant shut a guy like this down cause he is being very clear and even has included a pic that this is ZEGNA. I was once involved in a court case where my attorney assured me that I would lose as I was going up against a seasoned swindler and he said, seasoned swindlers know the ropes and know how to swindle within the guidlines of the law. ( we ended up settling to avoid a protracted legal battle) Alternatively the seller could really have meant a US comma 2.150 (two dollars fifteen cents ) when he wrote that as MSRP and not have meant the european use for the period which is the US equivilence of a comma.

Nah... JJF

 

[discostu004]

you get what you pay for i suppose.

 

[Alias]

That's why I'm grateful for boards like these in which we learn enough about clothes to tell the genuine from the fakes and the cons.

 

[montecristo#4]

Well, the cynical way of looking at it is that the unreliability of buyers (the risk of using Ebay) depresses prices across the board, meaning better quality at lower prices for people who know what's what. That being said, I own a suit that has a Zegna fabric label that's much better constructed than any off the rack or MTM Zegna--because I had it custom made by a very good tailor. So you can't just judge based ona a label, anyway.

M

 

[TomW]

WHen the buyer thinks is this a "zegna" suit? He can comfortably reassure himself that Sure it is. Says right there in the label, "Tessuto" EZ. (here's to hoping he doesnt get a hold of an Italian Dictionary and see Tessuto means Fabric) Is it the sellers responsibility to warn the clods that its not designed and constructed by EZ? I think not.

This is exactly the thinking that angers me. It is absolutely the seller's responsibility and moral obligation to warn the 'clods' - at a minimum not misrepresent the item. This is the real 'moral decline' in this country - people feeling it is okay to lie cheat and steal because afterall, if someone is that stupid they derserve to be taken advantage of. Cheating on your taxes, your spouse, or your eBay auctions is perfectly allright - as long as you don't get caught.

I hold myself to a higher standard

 

[FIHTies]

(TomW @ 23 July 2004, 10:51)
Quote:

Originally Posted by FIHTies,23 July 2004, 06:35
WHen the buyer thinks is this a "zegna" suit? Â He can comfortably reassure himself that Sure it is. Â Says right there in the label, "Tessuto" EZ. (here's to hoping he doesnt get a hold of an Italian Dictionary and see Tessuto means Fabric) Is it the sellers responsibility to warn the clods that its not designed and constructed by EZ? Â I think not.
This is exactly the thinking that angers me. It is absolutely the seller's responsibility and moral obligation to warn the 'clods' - at a minimum not misrepresent the item. This is the real 'moral decline' in this country - people feeling it is okay to lie cheat and steal because afterall, if someone is that stupid they derserve to be taken advantage of. Cheating on your taxes, your spouse, or your eBay auctions is perfectly allright - as long as you don't get caught. I hold myself to a higher standard
You miss my point. Its not a question of cheating and not getting caught. Â If he wanted to do that he wouldnt show the label, and when the buyer received it he would know or not know that he was duped. Â I think that the fellow that wants Zegna solely cause it says Zegna is being foolish as to how he spends his money. Â Is the seller Stating that its a Zegna Suit and not showing the label? Â No, He is showing the picture of the label and allowing you to decide if you want this suit. Â Let me ask you this. Â If someone buys a "Rolex Type" watch or a "Rolex Look" watch on ebay or anywhere and he pays 100 dollars do you feel bad for the guy cause he was duped by the seller? Â Why should I feel bad if some fool spends his money assuming that he is getting the steal of the century without bothering to do his due diligence. Â As Disco stated, you usually get what you pay for. If it sounds too good to be true usually in life it is. I mentioned before that I was showing an authentic Seven fold to someone and explaining what it was and why it was a quality tie and the different means of construction one can have in a tie and his eyes got all glossy and he said to me..."You know? Â I was just a a sample sale for ____ (name intentionaly withheld). Â They make really beautiful quality stuff. Â Outwardly I nodded and smiled at him but inside I was glancing at his Lands End button down collar shirt and pocket protector wondering why I was wasting my time. People of his ilk do not care that they are not getting a suit made by Zegna, but simply want the Name "Zegna" and Tessuto Zegna pushes that button. If he could wear the name on the outside he would undoubtedly be happier. This fills their needs and they feel great. Â I almost dont think that you are doing a service to a guy that feels warm and fuzzy inside for his great buy by telling him that he was ripped off. (Unless you want to teach him for the next time he almost makes the mistake). Â Again, I do not espouse nor condone it, but I really find it hard to find a place in my heart for the person that doesnt take the time to understand the why's a suit should cost 2K especially when it comes to designer names which are in large part overpriced for what they are, and how is it possible that this one is a 10th of that price. JJF

 

[TomW]

I agree that there are people who will be quite happy with this purchase. I can also assure you that you can get the 'real' thing for approximately the same cost - I have 2 Zegna sport coats and one suit that together cost less than one of the suits in this discussion. I've also paid substantially more for the other Zegna's in my closet - it's all about priority and need. I particularly like Italian makes like Zegna, Vestimenta, etc. because of the cut and construction - and the superior fabrics. I'll bet the vast majority of purchasers will never care or know the difference, and I'll be the first to confess to making some huge mistakes, but claiming a suit is manufactured by Zenga when it isn't is outright wrong. Some eBay merchants use the same type of pictures and list the item as being made of Zenga cloth - and get the same prices - I've no problem with that, there is no deception - an uniformed buyer may make an assumption and not ask for clarification, but that is his/her problem. The second link in this thread is closer to that - though not perfect.

BTW, I didn't miss your point. I was not attacking you as a merchant, merely the thinking you described. I don't attribute that thinking to you personally, and have read your posts frequently and wouldn't hesitate to purchase from you if you should have something I really like.

 

[LA Guy]

I might not have a lot of sympathy for the bidders, but I sure have hate for the seller. Yes, a fool and his money are easily separated. But that doesn't justify the act of separating said money from said fool. As for your example (FIHTies) of the man who couldn't tell a well constructed sevenfold from a polyester piece of crap (although, tangent here, I find that some lightweight summer ties gain something from the addition of some synthetic thread,) that guy may not appreciate your sevenfold, but that does not mean that you should try to sell him a lesser piece of crap for the same money. You should tell him, not in so many words, that he is settling for a lesser quality product, and sell it to him for a fair price.

 

[FIHTies]

I agree that there are people who will be quite happy with this purchase. I can also assure you that you can get the 'real' thing for approximately the same cost - I have 2 Zegna sport coats and one suit that together cost less than one of the suits in this discussion. I've also paid substantially more for the other Zegna's in my closet - it's all about priority and need. I particularly like Italian makes like Zegna, Vestimenta, etc. because of the cut and construction - and  the superior fabrics. I'll bet the vast majority of purchasers will never care or know the difference, and I'll be the first to confess to making some huge mistakes, but claiming a suit is manufactured by Zenga when it isn't is outright wrong. Some eBay merchants use the same type of pictures and list the item as being made of Zenga cloth - and get the same prices - I've no problem with that, there is no deception - an uniformed buyer may make an assumption and not ask for clarification, but that is his/her problem. The second link in this thread is closer to that - though not perfect. BTW, I didn't miss your point. I was not attacking you as a merchant, merely the thinking you described. I don't attribute that thinking to you personally, and have read your posts frequently and wouldn't hesitate to purchase from you if you should have something I really like.

And I agree that the thinking is wrong which is why I included the analogy to the Swindler in my post. Swindlers win time after time cause they know how to manipulate the system... But I really dont know why I am bothering responding to you as you are obviousely quite mad if you havent found anything on my site that you really like

(So that there is NO room for confusion THIS IS A JOKE...&#33

Have a great weekend

JJF

 

[LA Guy]

I understand, btw, FIHties and Rider, your frustrations at willfully ignorant customers. I've tried on more than one occasion to show how a pair of jeans made with selvedge ring-ring denim of superior yarns, and with a more flattering cut and handfinishing, may be actually better than a pair of $30 stonewashed Arizona jeans from JC Penney. To no avail. Or why (and this is the most frustrating to me) how a belt cut from top quality English bridle leather, with hand tooling, is worth more than a belt made from rolled leatherboard. The differences in this case were so obvious, even to the most untrained eye, and the ignorance was so profound, that I nearly cried from frustration.

 

[TomW]

But I really dont know why I am bothering responding to you as you are obviousely quite mad if you havent found anything on my site that you really like

(So that there is NO room for confusion THIS IS A JOKE...&#33

Have a great weekend

JJF

Now that is the humor I was looking for.. Actually, I see a number of items that you have on offer that are high on my wishlist. Once the summer bonus comes - I may even be able to afford a few..

 

[aybojs]

I think what FIHTies is saying is that although this guy is a total dick, there's really not much that can be done because, as he said, the guy is still selling "Zegna" suits, regardless of the fact that's he obviously misrepresenting it. Ebay doesn't really care at all as long as they get their exhorbitant fees some way or another. There really isn't any way to get eBay to kick the guy off, since he's "technically" following the rules, so it comes down to a caveat emptor thing. The best that can be done is just publicly mention what he's doing and why it's wrong so that people will know enough to avoid him. Of course, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be entertained by any angry forum mob justice against losers like this

. Those threads are always fun to watch.