1. Styleforum Gives - Holiday Charity Auction 11: Any Three (3) Customized Ties from Vanda Fine Clothing

    We are very proud to present this year's edition of the Styleforum Holiday Charity Auctions, this year in support of the Ronald McDonald House Charities of Spokane (www.rmhcspokane.org). Each Auction lasts 24 hours. Please follow and bid on all the auctions.

    The 11th auction of the year is for any three customized ties from Vanda Fine Clothing. Please bid often and generously here

    Fok and the Styleforum Team.

    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Things you just don't get

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by tiecollector, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    22,852
    Likes Received:
    8,138
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    
    The Gettysburg Address has some whack usage, too. How many folks know what "four score" means?
    How many people who will tell you they think Picasso is the greatest artist who ever lived could identify a single work?
    I'm seriously not getting how the fact that pretentious douches will reference cultural landmarks in stupid ways is an argument against teaching those landmarks in schools. Presumably a good number of the 25% who understand your Hamlet quote acquired that understanding at least in part because they read and discussed it in school, no?
     


  2. ethanm

    ethanm Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    10,670
    Likes Received:
    3,630
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    The real argument against teaching Shakespeare to 9th graders is that most of them will only get frustrated with it and they will miss the whole point of the lesson.
     


  3. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    22,852
    Likes Received:
    8,138
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    
    FTFY
     


  4. L'Incandescent

    L'Incandescent Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    16,021
    Likes Received:
    7,088
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    St. Louis
    I just learned today that the San Diego Padres have dashed the hopes of so many baseball fans around the world they said they have no plans to return to the brown and mustard color scheme. That is bullshit, what are they even thinking?
     


  5. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    22,852
    Likes Received:
    8,138
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    

    Maybe they are afraid of being associated with the San Diego Clippers.
     


  6. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    1,954
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Location:
    Zulu minus 7
    

    As LD said they get frustrated because it can't just be read in 5 minutes and make complete sense. One must actually think about it and kids these days have been trained by electronics and media to have a very short attention span and a lack of consistent focus. It's fucking scary to see children as young as 3 or 4 in the grocery store with an iPhone stuck in their faces. That cannot be good from a developmental standpoint.

    And aside from that most people are idiots… I believe there was a study not too long ago that only around 25% of college grads could identify all 50 states, so knowing anything about Shakespeare I'm fairly certain would be even lower.


    now something I don't get is people doing these crazy synthetic or bathtub drugs such as meow meow (a supposed plant food!) or krokodil (flesh-eating, bathtub heroin). Srsly… can't you just get some regular drugs?

    Oh.. and also parents who let their toddlers play with iPhones.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014


  7. zarathustra

    zarathustra Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    461
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    

    PREACH
     


  8. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    1,954
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Location:
    Zulu minus 7
    

    :lol:

    So what do you get with a short-attention-span kid, mentally stunted by an electronic lobotomy whacked out on meow meow?
     


  9. zarathustra

    zarathustra Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    461
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    

    A Millennial?

    Honest query, I hear what everyone is saying about the attention spans and such. If that were the case, why do they not write that way? Why must I continually remind them, MORE HEMINGWAY, LESS FAULKNER?
     


  10. Blackhood

    Blackhood Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,904
    Likes Received:
    365
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I've always argued that at the 9th grade level you should be getting students interested in and fired up about language. Show them some Terry Pratchet or Garth Nix - show them that good books open up a whole world.

    Once they love books and stories - then move them on the the beautiful tapestries of Shakespeare or Chaucer.

    You wouldn't introduce someone to alcohol by giving them a shot of 30 year old whisky, you give them a beer. Why do we insist on throwing the most opaque and difficult language at students right when we're trying to show how enchanting it can be?
     


  11. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    22,852
    Likes Received:
    8,138
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    

    1. Why are the two mutually exclusive? I read a shit-ton of stuff like Terry Pratchett, Douglas Adams, and Piers Anthony in high school (and earlier). I also read more intellectually challenging stuff that I probably wouldn't have tackled were it not part of the curriculum.

    2. By 9th grade, students are or should be capable of reading things that actually take a bit of intellectual work. Elementary school is when you teach kids that Reading Is Fun!. If that hasn't taken hold by 9th grade, the odds of instilling it through mandatory school reading at that age are much longer.

    3. Shakespeare is far less opaque and difficult than Chaucer, and far more accessible. Plenty of 9th graders can understand Shakespeare's works just fine, especially when they're reading annotated texts and discussing them in a classroom setting.

    4. I drank shitty beer as a kid because it was cheap and readily available. And, of course, I drank it to get drunk, not because it tasted good. If I'd had a parent or grandparent or uncle who introduced me to good whiskey or wine and how to appreciate it, I'm not sure that would have been a bad thing. Drinking whatever cheap, shitty beer somebody's older brother would buy us at 7-11 was not really a building block in developing a sophisticated palate.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014


  12. ethanm

    ethanm Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    10,670
    Likes Received:
    3,630
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    

    Hemingway, Vonnegut, Orwell, and Steinbeck are the only authors worth teaching. Fact.
     


  13. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    1,954
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Location:
    Zulu minus 7
    

    :lol:
    Millennial.. awesome.
    I spent some time in education and in general I found US high school students' writing just atrocious. I think the point you identify is just writing whatever comes to mind as opposed to being able to actually craft a compositional piece of writing. And truly I don't think the point should be lost that the use of computers and electronic devices leads to less and less actual writing with a piece paper and a pen.




    Not to be too pointed, but in what educational system is the 9th grade an introduction to reading/writing? By then I had been reading for nearly a decade and had read plenty of novels, poetry and scientific writings. I think 15 year olds are plenty able to study and understand the finer points of Shakespeare.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014


  14. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Stylish Dinosaur

    Messages:
    22,852
    Likes Received:
    8,138
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    
    You forgot Maya Angelou. We're all supposed to be wrapping ourselves in Maya Angelou's corpse today.
     


  15. Blackhood

    Blackhood Distinguished Member

    Messages:
    2,904
    Likes Received:
    365
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    

    I'm English so I'm trying to convert grades to "years" and by the time kids here are ~15 they are split into two camps: those who love reading and those who don't care. We then force them into reading Shakespeare which is horrible in terms of easy-to-parse text, complex plots driven by names and cultures that bare no relevance to their day to day life.

    These kids are being forced to study English at this point - the ones who love it will take it further. Once they're in a group of people who are passionate about language and literature, by all means crack out the bug guns.

    While you're still trying to capture the kids who don't care? Don't give them wherefore art thou and say "isn't it fucking lovely?" Give them Voldemort trying to snake-kill a guy.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by