C'mon man. First of all, as I said, espresso manufacturers have very, very precise grinds using very advanced machines that are far better than any coffee shop could hope to do. Second of all, vacuum-packaging coffee that was roasted and ground in the same facility will preserve the freshness just as well as vacuum-packaging the beans themselves and then grinding them. Third of all, since when did you get to redefine espresso for your own purposes into something that's directly opposed to what damn near every person in Italy considers espresso to be? That's why I made the dig at America before -- because some things in American culinary culture get perverted into things that they simply are not and never were and it all becomes a big, expensive fuss for an ultimately inferior result. What kind of machines are you talking about? Are you talking about home machines?