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Lizard23

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It seems to me that the focus should be on quality of life vs extension of life and the interplay between the two. I see a failure of this principle on a daily basis by both the modern health care complex as well as family members of those whose care is in question.
 

edinatlanta

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It seems to me that the focus should be on quality of life vs extension of life and the interplay between the two. I see a failure of this principle on a daily basis by both the modern health care complex as well as family members of those whose care is in question.
Well for me I also have the whole Catholic-end-of-life ethics to worry about. So....


Here's the number one argument against Mexico. They never made tacos strong enough that only one taco was necessary. I don't know why it angers me so much when i have to wrap my taco with a taco.
 

Lizard23

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I was raised Catholic (although I am now an atheist) but I can see that adding more complexity and don't envy your current position. In fact I feel for you and your situation.

That being said, one could argue that if the focus on health care was more about quality of life vs keeping one alive, it would take some of those decisions off of your plate.

I work for a med tech company so this line of thinking hurts my bottom line but that doesn't make me feel any less strongly about it.

On a micro scale, these types of decisions will always be tough and, in general, people just want all that can be done to be done (especially since often times insurance is covering these things, but that is another can of worms). For this exact reason, the decisions need to be made on a macro scale.

This is usually where people start freaking out about “death panels” and such, but if one thinks there isnt already an economic component factored into courses of treatment based on extensive analysis that often times is based on large scale clinical data with mortality benefit as a key endpoint one would be mistaken.
 

edinatlanta

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I cussed out a friar in a hospital when we took my mother in law off life support. I almost hit his dumbass.
Why were you worried about french fries at that time anyway?

Yeah i mean the other thing is statistically i don't gotta worry about this for a few decades so...
 

beargonefishing

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Why were you worried about french fries at that time anyway?

Yeah i mean the other thing is statistically i don't gotta worry about this for a few decades so...
My wife's very large and very catholic family were mostly there, probably a dozen. They were shocked, but the friar was being a fucking dick giving my wife and her sister guilt trips for not wanting their mom to live on a ventilator for weeks, months or years.

Apparently god's plan includes a fuck ton of modern medicine and equipment, except birth control.
 
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Lizard23

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Looking for logic when talking about reactions people have to dealing with death is futile. There is (understandably) just too much emotion involved which is why i believe strongly that decisions should be made at a societal level.

I will use myself as an example. I think about this stuff a lot and have what I think is a pretty strong framework for how end of life care should be managed but have (luckily) not had to deal with this sort of thing yet, although I know I will at some point. But I am under no illusions that the choices will be simple or clear when the time comes. Human beings are just not wired that way. As a whole we are totally illogical and go out of our way to prove this day in and day out.

I think the general thesis to focus on quality vs quantity is a good start. The problem is that quality is too subjective and any effort to quantify it is murky at best and is sure to be met with dissent.

And around and around we go...
 

edinatlanta

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Well we're really dealing with accurate summations of philosophy tonight
 

edinatlanta

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Piobaire

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Even the Sky Wizard King, a.k.a. the Pope, has ruled heroic measures are not required. It's pretty simple if you ask me.
 

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