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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Classic beauty!
     
  2. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Need dat.
     
  3. Epaulet

    Epaulet Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Haha, I had a literal LOL from that. Thanks for the good words everyone.
    This is fantastic. I wish that I had a bigger wrist to pull this model off.
     
  4. kungapa

    kungapa Senior member

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  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    This is simply false. I can do more embellishment faster if I take less care in the execution. In contrast, if I take more care in the execution, it might take me more time to do less embellishment. I don't understand why this principle is proving so evasive in this discussion.


    Again, there is a failure of distinction underlying this commentary. Yes, Patek adds varying amounts of embellishment to its movements, depending on the complications and price point. However, the quality of the embellishment is about the same across their entire line. The perlage on a basic Calatrava will be just as neat and fine as on a tourbillion minute repeater.

    Lange finishing is not just "louder" than Patek's, but includes more embellishment: including the blued screwed, screwed chatons, etc. My point is that those added features don't make the Lange better finished--just finished differently. It's similar to comparing a pair of heavily brogued alligator Lobbs to ones made from plain calfskin without broguing. The former is not better finished than the latter. It just louder and more embellished.


    No, I'm not against "louder" finishes in general. I don't like the design philosophy underlying Lange's specific approach. It is a blatant attempt to establish heritage by incorporating feature not specific to Lange, but common to fine movements in the past and which have disappeared because they no longer function. It would be like featuring headlights that look like gas lamps to resurrect a defunct car marque. I think that's pretty tasteless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  6. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I actually really dislike the small Portuguese. The original Portuguese was not a regular production watch. It was the result of a special request for a wrist watch large enough to accommodate a pocket watch movement for greater accuracy. The customer was supposedly Portuguese. Hence, it was always made with random dials in black and white, using different numerals and markers. The dials were generic in style--whatever was popular at the time a particular Portuguese was requested. Hence, the only feature that distinguishes the Portuguese as a Portuguese is the large 42mm diameter case, with a bezel and profile as slim as possible to cut down on size. By shrinking the Portuguese, such as in the case of the 3531, that essential quality is lost, and all you have is a reproduction of a random 1930's watch that could have been made by anybody. The dial, with its Arabic numerals and dot markers, can be found on any number of watches from that period--both by IWC and other manufacturers.
     
  7. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    ^^ This might be the first time I've heard of someone NOT liking this model..
     
  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Maybe on here. It is quite disliked by watch guys, and maybe most of all by IWC collectors. Keep in mind, SF'ers spend a lot more time learning about clothes than watches.
     
  9. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Yep - and I generally don't rley on SF for my watchtalk (though I think this thread is terrific). Disliked by watch guys? Don't think so. There was a lineup to buy it when I sold it - which certainly has not been the case with every watch I have sold over the years. Particularly disliked by IWC guys? Well it was very well received on the IWC forums that I posted it on when I picked it up.
     
  10. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    Actually, not really!

    This suggestion always gets pooh poohed on the internetz, but I say this because I've noticed it while examining many PP watches differences in the quality of finishing (particularly the anglage) from base models to the more fancy ones! I started examining them in ADs after I noticed the occasional post in the PP forums about this phenomenon. It's easy to make a comparison because so many models use the same base calibre; in the more "entry level" pateks, the anglage can be "rougher" (for lack of a better term), and there was one where I even saw vertical wavy marks.

    That said, my sample size for "nicer" models is small (~10) so maybe I just haven't examined enough perpetual calendars.


    That's pretty much exactly what I was saying, but c'est la vie. :)
     
  11. AriGold

    AriGold Senior member

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    "your watch is disliked!"

    :foo:
    ---|---
    . / \
     
  12. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Interesting observation, apropos. However, I always thought that the finishing on base Pateks tended to be near immaculate, even if less elaborate. Anyway, at least you understand the distinction I'm making. Blued screws and gold chatons don't make a Lange better finished than an IWC.

    On the 3531: there is a cult following for the watch, but it is generally unloved, particularly as compared to "real" Portgueses. It was only produced for five years (1995-1999/2000), so there are relatively few on the market. Look at pricing on the secondary market. Retail prices when new were ~$5,000 for the steel version. You can pick one up now for $3,000. In contrast, the regular production 5001 Portuguese retailed for around $10,000 when it debuted in 2004/2005, is still in production, and sells used for $9,000 and up. The 1993 Portuguese Jubilee, on which the 3531 was based, tells an even starker story. Its retail price was $8,500 in steel, and now sells for more than double that (~$17,000).
     
  13. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Say it aint so! How will I ever survive the disaFooval? [​IMG]

    Well, I guess it's a good thing I don't own it anymore - I'd just have to chuck it in the trash.

    A 40% difference between retail and used is hardly shocking within the context of the secondary market. Heck, a great many models are available brand new with a 30% discount. I suspect that kind of drop is not at all unusual even within the context of the IWC lineup itself - the Aquatimer and Portuguese Chrono spring to mind. I doubt that it signifies that such watches are uniquely unloved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  14. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The discount is actually quite remarkable given that other Portugueses, including the currently made 5001, fare so much better.
     
  15. AriGold

    AriGold Senior member

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    Roger- how much did you end up getting rid of it for?
     
  16. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    Roger - Whoah, Whoah Whoah - you SOLD IT?!

    j/k - I'm glad you were able to enjoy it. Seriously I've never heard of anyone having anything but glowing praise for that particular watch, but at the same time it's hard to doubt the FOO.

    R

    PS - I got my 7 day BNIB from and AD for nearly 30% off. But that was when the US was in an economic slump, and dealers couldn't give them away.. Just lucky I guess..

     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  17. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I got my 5001 for nearly 30% off retail as well. However, the used prices have climbed with the retail prices. So, the margin is small and I could sell mine used for more than the price I paid new. The same cannot be said of the 3531. Prices speak truth more than internet chatter.
     
  18. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    So this "truth" would hold that the Portuguese chrono, Aquatimer and any other IWC (or watch from any other brand) which sells for 40% of its retail price on the used market is uniquely unloved? Sorry, I find it remarkably easy to doubt the Foo. He seems to be confusing particular watches which hold their value exceptionally well with a brand-wide or industry-wide norm. As good an example of internet chatter as I can think of.

    Check out this 'real' Portuguese hand wind with in-house movement being offered at 35% off retail - guess that one is only sort of unloved?

    http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-iwc-545408-hand-wound-portuguese-44mm-838056.html

    Anyone who goes to www.watchrecon.com and does a 30 day search on IWCs offered on the secondary market will very quickly conclude that used IWC watches selling for more than their original retail prices very much represent the exception to the rule.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
  19. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    I bought it used for around $3k, sold it for the same or maybe a little bit more.
     
  20. Allez Allez

    Allez Allez Senior member

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    I suspect that the price discount on the 3531 (assuming there is one) reflects the more recent market appetite for larger watches, rather than a collective disdain for this model in particular. It seems like fewer people are looking for 35 - 36mm watches. Having said that, I have the impression that some IWC models really do suffer in the secondary market.

    This watch is a subtle watch, as RogerP suggests. It doesn't hit you over the head. It has a great Jaeger movement. Chicks dig it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013
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