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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Coldcava

    Coldcava Senior member

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    Yes to both... Needed something to fill the dress watch role, and was looking at either the Grand Taille or the Calendar.
     
  2. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    IWC is Swiss, not German.

    And to be perfectly honest, I think that IWC in a way is often more offensive than Omega. The new Ingenieur's retail for $6,500, and have piss poor AM ability and are modified ETAs. The new 8500 Omegas, in my most humble of opinions, are some of the best watches out there for the money. The 8500 movement is beautifully finished, is supposedly very reliable, and has some very interesting additions. Yes, the IWC Port 5001 is superior to the AT 8500, but we are also talking about double the price range. To be honest, I think that IWC is "Paneraizing" themselves rather than "Omegaizing" (disclaimer: I am OK with Panerai doing this, as I think that their designs speak for themselves). Personally, design choices aside, I like where Omega is going. I think the previous gen PO is beautiful, and I think they generally have some lovely designs out there (Speedy, AT).

    And IWC being better finished than JLC? I guess I just disagree with that. You say that it is supposed to appear engineered, and thus there is no bevelled edges or anglage. However, anglage and beveling is incredibly purposive--it reduces friction in the parts.

    I guess I am a bit of an IWC hater. I wish that IWC would take back their designs even further, before the 2004-2005 days.

    I yearn after the IWC Minute Repeater... so hawt.

    Just having some fun here, it is nice to have a little :foo: in the thread.
     
  3. david3558

    david3558 Senior member

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    Loving the winder... Wolf Roadster Triple[​IMG]
     
  4. david3558

    david3558 Senior member

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    Similar thoughts from me here, but I'm a big fan of the Ingenieur refresh.
     
  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    IWC is Swiss, but in the German part of Switzerland, whereas most watchmakers are in the French portion. That has always significantly impacted their watchmaking ethos, and also made them the natural choice when Lange needed expertise to re-launch itself. So, yes, I think it is fair to say that IWC is more Germanic in design than its other Swiss competitors.

    How does anglage on non-moving plates decrease friction? All the movement of other parts will be lateral to the plates' surface. Perlage and Geneva stripes, on the other hand, are very functional for that reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  6. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    That all goes for me, too. Well said and spot on.
     
  7. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    The Grand Taille would be my choice here. I'd rock that with a suit 5 days a week.
     
  8. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    On non-moving plates, yes, anglage does not decrease friction. However, on moving parts, it is very functional:

    [​IMG]

    Furthermore, it also assists with assembly and with repair, as the sharp edges do not "catch."

    And your perspective is interest with respect to IWC's watchmaking "ethos." Although I agree that it may be their "cited" reason, do you really think that they do not want to engage in greater hand-finishing because it would otherwise clash with their "ethos?"

    And interesting points with respect to their heritage being more German than Switzerland. Admittedly, I am not very familiar with much of Switzerland's cultural background!
     
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Anglage on gear teeth like you show is not common, even amongst the high-end makers mentioned. Since gears only rotate laterally, I cannot see how that kind of finishing would be helpful. The profile and regularity of the teeth are infinitely more important, and what we look to when judging movement design and finish. You generally want very sharp, defined edges on teeth, not anything rounded off. After all, precision is key. As for other moving parts that go unseen, IWC does chamfer where it is functional.

    What do you mean by "greater hand-finishing?" Again, there is a difference between the degree of embellishment, and the quality of finish. In terms of embellishment, IWC movements don't really register. They have always verged on a more serious, engineered approach. So, superficial anglage is not to be seen (such as on plates). I see great merit in this more honest approach. A lot of more eye-catching movements distract you with flourish, but lack in true quality of finish. In contrast, IWC finishing has been known to be painfully immaculate, though more spartan. Does that make IWC finishing less "great?" I don't think so at all. I'm much more interested in how well the finishing applied has been executed. How fine and regular are the cotes de Geneve? Are edges razor sharp or are they burred and pitted under magnification? Is perlage applied with care, such that the "pearls" are equal in size and placed in a regular, consistent pattern, or is it haphazard (such as in the case of Rolex)? Are you more interested in dazzle or quality?

    Switzerland is a cross-section of Italian, German, and French culture. Different parts of the country are more given to one than the other. IWC has always been the only major manufacture in the German-speaking region. Hence, the watches have always been more austere and less given to whimsy.

    As for whether IWC could embellish their movements more than they do: as I pointed out above, all the finishing you see on Lange watches was taught to Lange by IWC. However, Lange finishing is far from "honest." The most obvious example of what I mean is the screwed chatons securing the jewels. The screws and chatons are completely without added function. They just look pretty. Nobody else uses them and Lange thought it would be one way to distinguish themselves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  10. chocsosa

    chocsosa Senior member

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    A gift from my uncle after undergrad. Have had this bad boy for over 10 years..My first real watch..
    [​IMG]

    Does not get a lot of play because I'm not a fan of gold tone watches or metal straps.. but I break it out here and there..
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    technically, IWC is kind of american. USA USA USA USA!!! :stirpot:

    apropos - great info on JLC engraving and enameling. much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  12. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    i think that looks quite nice on the brown.
    looks positively lovely. especially the back.
     
  13. Kaplan

    Kaplan Senior member

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    Ads playing on IWC being watches for men goes a good deal further back than that. When the Swiss ad agency GGK was in charge (1978-1995), they had lines like 'IWC. Since 1868 and for as long as men still exist'. Wirz Werbung then took over (1996-2004) with lines like 'Men earn more than women. For example an IWC.'



    IWC was obviously started by an American, Florentine Ariosto Jones (who went to Switzerland in 1868 to make watches for the US market, as trained watchmakers were cheaper there than back in the US). He went bankrupt in about '76 and from 1879 IWC became a Swiss family business (Jung became part of this family).

    I agree that aesthetically there's nothing IWC does now, that they haven't done better in the past.
     
  14. nttdocomo

    nttdocomo Senior member

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    Looks nice! As for temperatures reaching 40C... well, I'm in Tokyo, and I can assure you that in summer, many days at 39.9C were recorded each summer for the last few years ;)
     
  15. mans72

    mans72 Well-Known Member

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    hi guys, sporting this today...
    [​IMG]
     
  16. marvin100

    marvin100 Senior member

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    You may want to ask yourself who, precisely, is being a "prick" in this conversation. Poor form, sir.
     
  17. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Very nice - watches that have some personal history attached are always special. If it were mine, I'd set aside the bracelet, pair it with a nice brown croc strap and wear the heck out of it.
     
  18. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    It seems to me that if IWC's movements are so well-engineered, they wouldn't have the accuracy problems that seem to affect their big auto. [​IMG]

    By the way, very good discussion lately; there have been quite a few knowledgeable and well-written posts in the last few days!
     
  19. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    ^^^ Agreed. There was a thread a while back on WUS, with numerous IWC owners reporting on the timekeeping performance of their watches with the 8 day movement. The results were, in my view, appalling. All the chest-thumping about a functional approach to movement finishing rings a bit hollow when the actual function of the movement - accurate measurement of the passage of time - is quantifiably lacking.
     
  20. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Hey, stereotypes are for a reason.

    I'd rather read someone's real and non-sugarcoated opinion — especially coming from someone with Apropos' depth and breath of knowledge — than the usual mollycoddling drivel that passes for discussion on the forums where everyone is a special flower. The freedom of being able to say what you mean, without condescending and humourless moderation turning the place into a wasteland of clueless noobs, is what makes this the best watch thread on the internet and brings in the heavy hitters who know how to write.
     
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