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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    I guess if one has as you've described a results oriented view of a movement, what is wrong with a quartz movement? Its simple, more accurate, often less expensive, and more technologically advanced than mechanical movements which have been around for hundreds of years.

    You previously suggested the reason people get so interested in watch movements is to inject intellectualism into the subject. At least for me its due to an appreciation of workmanship, exclusivity, and maybe history. However if one is mostly focused on end results, is it accurate and reliable ...then why would one consider any of the higher end brands? Simply for design? A Rolex, Omega, Breitling, or IWC will give you the time, are accurate, reliable and should satisfy one's appreciation of solving the problem of how to tell time. Much of how Patek, VC, AP and Lange are marketed and sold is based on quality, workmanship, tradition, history, and exclusivity (and thats often just when talking about their movements...not the overall brand). If you take those away (from the movement or the brand) are you merely left with the overall appearance as the criteria of what to buy?

    The appreciation of solving a problem within parameters as a way of choosing a watch sounds rather robotic. However, if one considers why one appreciates that, isn't it because at some point someone used labor/effor/intelligence to devise a way to tell time with a mechanical device...so does that not then go back toward some appreciation of history and a romantic notion of skilled craftsman figuring out how to make a clock or watch run?

    Your end results purchasing idea is interesting, but without any interest in the finish, history/tradition, exclusivity, etc., which are factors that play on our emotions, it does make me wonder why one would buy a high end watch when an average watch (be it mechanical or quartz) can essentially do the same job.
     
  2. johanm

    johanm Senior member

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    Dino - I do view watches primarily as design objects (not art) and would identify design as the feature that most stimulates my interest and "emotion" with respect to watches, with "design" encompassing dial/case aesthetics, functions, accuracy, reliability, and possibly the exterior aesthetics of the movement if the watch has a display back. Why buy a "higher end brand"? The main reason would be superior design. Take the 3970 posted above - beautiful dial/case and a compact perpetual calendar/chrono movement that represents great technical achievement. If Seiko put out a Grand Seiko perp calendar chrono with a similarly beautiful dial/case, I could very well prefer it to the Patek, and I wouldn't be influenced by branding, history, tradition, joining a "club", exclusivity, artisanal blood/sweat/tears, etc. Don't believe that prioritizing design/aesthetics over that stuff makes this approach more robotic or less emotional.

    Going back to quartz, I just don't find the problem of building an accurate/reliable/beautiful quartz watch to be as interesting as building a mechanical watch with the same characteristics. Would love to have an Ikepod hourglass on my desk, however, and would be interested in any other examples of creatively designed modern hourglasses.
     
  3. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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  4. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    Most modern watches are about jewellery not craftsmanship. Most incorporate mass produced movements.

    The last true horological craftsman died a few years back. The last of his kind.
     
  5. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

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    Tell us more please.

    So what year did this take place exactly?

    The day horological craftmanship died that is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  6. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    You mean you don't know?

    A connoisseur of the horologists art would know immediately of who I speak.
     
  7. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

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    Who me?

    No, I'm just a simple newby.


    But please, do feel free to expound a bit, and share your vast knowledge and wisdom.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  8. Cant kill da Rooster

    Cant kill da Rooster Senior member

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    I think he is just calling bullshit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  9. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    His name was Dr George Daniels. Died in 2010,

    He invented the coaxial escapement used by Omega.

    It was said just before his death, that he was the only living horologist able to build a watch completely by hand. That is, make every component and assemble it by his own hand.

    Here:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-the-worldrsquos-best-horologist-2067792.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/fashion/24iht-acaw2-daniels24.html?_r=0
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  10. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    You thought wrong.
     
  11. dddrees

    dddrees Senior member

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    As great as he may have been, the art existed long before he was born, and it will continue to prosper long after his passing.
     
  12. rnguy001

    rnguy001 Senior member

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    Hmm - do you mean JLC as a whole is inherently better than IWC?

    Or do you mean ANY JLC watch is automatically better than ANY IWC watch? If the latter then I would disagree with this type of blanket statement. Ex: a JLC MC is not automatically better than an IWC Perpetual, just because it's a JLC, and a Patek Calatrava is not better than a JLC Duometre simple because it's a Patek..

    Sorry in advance if I'm misinterpreting your statement.

     
  13. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    As I said. The last of his kind.

    I very much doubt that we will see skill of that level again. This thread confirms that, sadly.
     
  14. Alan K C

    Alan K C Well-Known Member

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    Love it from the back, the exhibition back that is. Amazing.
     
  15. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    Eh, 2 newspaper articles hardly qualifies as authoritative fact re the death knell of horology. Sure, there may be no more George Daniels, but I'm sure someone will come along in a bit and fill his place.

    It's not as if in the huge gap between breguet and daniels the world of horology died or anything even approximating that.

    Ever heard of Roger Smith?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  16. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    Yes, he was Daniels pupil.

    Have you even read the articles I posted because if you have, I suggest you reread the NY Times one again. This time more carefully.
     
  17. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    At least compare apples to apples. Is the master Control perpetual calendar better than the Portuguese perpetual calender, well I think so.


    Damn, ninja edit didn't come in time.

    So, before daniels and after breguet, what state was horology in?

    Wait, no, surely not the exact same state it finds itself in now? Chicken little, is the sky falling?
     
  18. JBLL

    JBLL Member

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  19. Lovelace

    Lovelace Senior member

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    You didn't read the articles I linked to did you?

    You just decided to mouth off didn't you?

    Proving to all and sundry that you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
     
  20. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    While I understand your functional/design preference...I find it interesting that you use the 3970 as an example of what would meet your criteria in evaluating a watch. Its a fantastic watch, but I think it more likely fullfills criteria that I've discussed (beautifully finished movement, quality, history, tradition, and exclusivity) . There is no proof that a 3970 is any more accurate or reliable than any other Patek, or other brand for that matter...so I can't imagine those factors actually matter or could easily be evaluated in this watch. As for the great technical achievement, is a great achievement but one that has existed for decades (be it from Patek, AP, VC etc). Its design and size are rather traditional (its predecessor looks nearly identical and was made several decades ago), its the recent trend in big watches that has caused manufacturers to "Supersize everything." I agree looks or a design can cause an emotional experience. I guess I would have thought a much more modern, cutting edge watch rather than something quite traditional would be what meets or exceeds most of your requirements (maybe with the exception of appearance).

    As for you choosing a Grand Seiko if they offered one with the same beautiful case and dial (particularly if it were the same price as a Patek), I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, while Grand Seikos are great watches and lots of people say they would buy one over some other more recognized luxury brand, very few people "Put their money where their mouth is" and actually do that. As for you not being swayed at least slightly by Patek's branding, history, tradition, joining a "club", exclusivity, artisanal blood/sweat/tears, etc...if thats true your will power is stronger than most mere mortals.

    I certainly wasn't saying you have to like or be interested in a quartz...simply according to the factors you stressed, a quartz watch could meet or exceed your requirements.
     
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