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The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

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  1. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    I am in love with the aesthetics of perpetual calendars. How does that Chopard feel on your wrist? Does it wear slightly tall or does it slip into your cuff fairly easily? Obviously this depends on the shirt you're wearing...

    I've been to some auctions and my concern is always provenance and quality. Sure, pieces might clear for what seems to be an outrageously low price (although sometimes they clear for outrageously high prices, haha), but then you have to verify quality and where it came from, etc. I guess that's what I pay dealers for, to guarantee said provenance and quality with a 1 or 2-year warranty.
     
  2. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Within the last month, prices on all of their gold watches were reduced. Not sure if prices on their platinum pieces were also reduced. Prices on steel watches remain unchanged.
     
  3. no frills

    no frills Senior member

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    Yes, definitely gold. Unsure about platinum. I want to say it was only about a week ago, but rumors had been floating around for at least a month.
     
  4. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    IIRC, the true drop is 17%. Some people have then tried figuring if the got a discount based on the new price, how much they might have saved...but most got large discount on the gold pieces. Its my understanding, the cost on APs to dealers have gone up by 10% so with a drop in MSRP, it will cut the deep discounting on gold models. Also, AP is doing what Cartier and Rolex did in the last few years and is closing many smaller/deep discouting ADs world wide.

    As for brand perception, it probably won't have much affect. They have tremendous brand loyalty among customers(maybe more so than any other brand other than Rolex, with many owners owning several APs). Not sure if anyone here on SF was following AP about 4-5 years ago, but anyone that did may remember they had price reduction on steel watches in 2009. For example all the sudden the RO chronograph dropped from about $19,400 to $16,000+/-. Within 2 years prices on all steel APs were nearly at the pre-price drop level and by last year all prices had greatly exceeded it, and the RO chronographs were around $23,000. Most people don't even remember the price drop. If someone had to sell a watch immediately after the price drop it sucked for them, but if they held on to the watch for a few years it became irrelevant as prices rebounded.

    Quick research I saw said its only on gold models, and not on any limited editions. Rumors began in January, but were confirmed by the last week of January.
     
  5. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    That is a beautiful Chopard! Very cool retrograde date too!

    I think you need to try to do more research regarding the price of the AP Dual Time. I don't see them come up for sale too often, but a single auction result from 3-4 years ago doesn't really give much guidance. Auction results can help with setting some parameters, but items can often sell for less than their real market value if a seller is in a hurry and the right buyer isn't at that auction, or a piece can sell for far more than its worth if a few buyers get worked up into a frenzy over the same piece.

    I think $11,000 might be a bit high, but $6,000 is probably quite low. I'm far from an expert but I'd hazzard a guess that you should be able to negotiate it for a price of maybe $8,000-9,000.
     
  6. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    A quick check on eBay and I found 2 examples of the AP Dual Time dress watch from the 90s. One for $9,000 OBO, the other for $9,700 OBO.
    So with some negotiating I would think in the $8-9K range is not unreasonable for a top quality watch.
     
  7. Kaplan

    Kaplan Senior member

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    Anybody wanna take a guess at the price of the 6265?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  8. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Really? I wonder what the little voices in your head might be telling you...[​IMG]
     
  9. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    these are all amazing. so is the one in kaplans link. yeesh.

    kirbya - i quite like both of those watches. dont know much about AP pricing, but i would have guessed that 11k for a gold model like that is not all that bad. looks like i would have been wrong. otoh, with pre-owned, its worth whatever you can get for it really.

    what else do you have in the collection? also, im a huge sucker for retograde anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  10. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    I think the pricing on that 90s AP would be low because it wasn't a hugely popular model (the RO version was more in demand) and the crown and lugs being on the small side date the watch a bit. Other than that, if one likes the design its probably a great value as the modern versions of that are close to $30K.
     
  11. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    For the 39 mm with the newer movement? If so, that's not bad at all, but I've never seen them for that price.

    The Dual Time is one of the best steel watches I've seen in person; there was one at a work get-together recently and I had a good chat with its owner. It's just a gorgeous watch with a lovely JLC movement, and I have a weakness for GMT-type complications. Unfortunately, that nice brushed finish would likely start looking a bit mangled in short order on my wrist; it's not a motorcycling watch.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  12. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    ^^ i liek ^^


    yes, this is what i was trying to say. thanks dino, lol.
     
  13. johanm

    johanm Senior member

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    Looks like AP is gearing up for a Richemont style strategy of severing ties with ADs and shifting focus to boutique sales. I read an interview with their current CEO, Bennahmias, where he seemed intensely fixated on brand management - enhancement from celebrity endorsements and customer service, and damage from grey market and AD discounting. I'm interested to see if his strategy will work. I understand he has basically no knowledge about watches, and came to AP from a background of fashion marketing.
     
  14. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Do you have a link to the interview? That's really unfortunate if someone who's not a watch person is at the helm of AP. Richemont's celebrities,-fashion-and-branding streak has managed to destroy IWC in my eyes; it would be a shame for another old house to suffer the same fate — though the endless ROO clown editions are a sign that it's already been happening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  15. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    Just an example of great minds thinking alike [​IMG]
    Not sure if your post was of the belief that I was speaking of the RO Dual Time for 8-9K? I was not, but in any event you won't find a 39mm RO Dual Time for that price. I was speaking of the 90s version of the dual time gold dress watches, which the OP inquired about a few posts earlier. The old watch is top quality, its simply a matter of whether the design appeals to someone. The current Jules Audemars Dual Times would sell for a heck of a lot more than 8-9K.

    The new Dual Time RO is a beatiful and very functional watch. It was a strong contender when I was shopping for a RO. The RO Dual Time originally came out I believe in the early 90s, but I think the 39mm version is much nicer than the original! Its a great travel watch for a CEO that travels, and will be wearing everything from suits to casual wear. I don't really think of it as a motorcycling watch...I cringe at the thought of what it might look like if it were ever in some of the accidents my clients have been in with their motorcycles!
     
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  16. Belligero

    Belligero Senior member

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    Oops, all I saw was Dual Time and I thought RO. But since we're on the subject, I'll just mention that the 36 mm Royal Oak Dual Time is no slouch in the looks department, either, and can be had for much less than the newer version.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  17. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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    He's been with AP for more than 15 years so I'm not sure I'd say he is NOT a watch person at this point. To be honest, some companies have done quite well have being helmed by people from the outside. I don't think Nicolas Hayek's formal background was not in the watch industry. Some of his skills may have been transferable, but again not originally a watch guy. As for the Limited Editions...don't get me started I can' stand most RO Offshores Ltd eds, IWC Ltd eds, Omega Ltd eds,...but as long as their are people who will pay a premium to get a watch with slightly different stitching on a strap, or a different colored second hand, the watch companies will continue to make them.
    Many companies such as Rolex or those under Richemont have cancelled contracts with a number of ADs world wide...both in an effort to get rid of those offering deep discounts, and to eliminate some of the middlemen and open boutiques in major cities. All companies have some level of brand management, if they have a brand image worth protecting or marketing. I do not like the celebrity endorsements as I think it cheapens brands and is never an inflence on my decision of what to purchase. However, many companies are affiliated with some celebrities with little harm to the brand.

    As for how he came to AP, my understanding was that Georges Meylan, former CEO of AP, was vacationing and was familiar with Bennahmias's wife who worked for Breitling. He bumped into the Bennahmiases on that vacation. Bennahmias was unemployed at the time and after talking with him, Meylan offered him a job at AP. The rest is history, as for a background in fashion marketing...that might just be prior on the job training. IIRC, he didn't have a college degree...when I read that back in the 1990s when he first came to AP North America...I thought wow thats lucky to get a job like that! Still, if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Bennahmias being very successful with the brand. He is largely responsible for helping to increase brand awareness and to help turn their sales from roughly a few million dollars per year to several hundred million dollars per year.
     
  18. Allez Allez

    Allez Allez Senior member

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    Supposedly this was Ian Fleming's watch.

    The Explorer is the 1016. I also really like the 1018 Rolex Oyster Perpetual non-date. Cool as motherf#cker.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

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  20. johanm

    johanm Senior member

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    Are you sure you're not confusing Bennahmias for another AP executive, possibly the outgoing one who Bennahamias only recently replaced on an interim basis? In the recent speech linked below he talks about his fiancee, as well as some similar topics to what I mentioned in my earlier post. In the other interview, which I'll continue to try to find, I think he was emphasizing his experience with fashion (I think he worked for Jean Paul Gaultier and some other French house) and how it gives him a different perspective on watch marketing as compared to other watch industry executives. [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
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