1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

The Watch Appreciation Thread (Reviews and Photos of Men's Timepieces by Rolex, Patek Philippe, Brei

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by gdl203, May 20, 2007.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hi B,

    The ultra thin 1003 is very cool. I believe the only current VC to use it is their Patrimony Traditionelle Skeleton watch. I can appreciate an ultra thin movement, but that is not necessary to make me happy. Choosing an ultimate 2 or 3 hand dress watch is tough so I will go with 3 catagories.

    For vintage it would be a Patek 3424 (in a white metal) designed by Gilbert Albert. I really like non round cases, and to me its asymmetric case a very fresh and unusal look for Patek. I think when it comes to dress watches most people hear the name Patek and they think Calatrava. The 3424 flies under the radar and would not really be noticed as a Patek except by Patek collectors.

    One of my ultimate two hand dress watches, is in my collection already. It might not be everyone's choice but for me, its beautiful, interesting, and high quality. I really love my Louis Cartier Tank XL from the Privee Collection. It was made from 2007-2008. Only 200 were made in rose and 50 in platinum. It has a beautiful rectangular movement from Piaget and its visible through the saphire crystal back. Its a watch that is paired down to its essentials, simple case design, classic Roman numerals with blued sword shaped hands, and a design that is roughly 100 years old and still looks fresh and sophisticated with a suit or sport jacket.

    For current favorite 2 hand dress watches, I would have to say I really like the JLC 1931 tribute watch, and the Piaget Altiplano (both their 2 hand manual and their 40mm manual with subdial for seconds at 10 o'clock). I like VC ref 43075/000R-9737, especially since its uses the famous 1120 (also used by Patek and AP), but their choice to only use gold for the outer part of the rotor bothers me a bit.
    That watch is inspired by a design they made in the late 1930s. Their vintage watches had very cool watch cases and lugs. I find some of their modern watches a little bit uninspiring. My favorite watches in their current collection are generally from their Historique collection. I also have a VC from 2006, called the 1972. Its in rose gold, used an asymmetric case, and a manual wind movment where the crown recesses into the side of the case for a very sleek , clean look. Its another piece inspired by their past designs.
     
  2. Keith T

    Keith T Senior member

    Messages:
    1,433
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Location:
    Texas
    This was yesterday...

    [​IMG]
     
  3. oisin

    oisin Senior member

    Messages:
    529
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Location:
    los angeles
    

    i tried the 1931 on this weekend too and came to the same conclusion. just didn't fit me right and too small for me. at least that's one i can stop lusting over, though i will always appreciate its looks.
     
  4. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    

    Hi Dino, actually two other modern VCs use the cal 1003. The Historiques 1955 and Coin watch. Both are reissues of past V&Cs. I am a huge fan of ultrathins and two of the most groundbreaking were the VC cal 1003 (1.64mm) also used as the AP 2003, and the JLC cal 839/849 (1.85mm). These were the only true ultrathin movements built in the last 50 years that worked reliably. I actually collect prime vintage examples of the cal 1003 and have 12 references to date. The one I wear the most is one I bought from a single owner who wore it for 40 years everyday, so you know that can handle daily life. Vintage VCs from my experience were clearly built better, even though they were simple watches, in the pre-conglomerate era. They cost 10 times more than a comparable Rolex in the 60s, so you can imagine the cost differential.

    The Patek you mentioned is exquisite and I do agree it is far more interesting and well-priced than a comparable Calatrava. You definitely pay more for the Patek name but it does hold its value well over time. I have never been a fan of the brand myself (preferring VC and JLC) and the only Pateks in my collection were inherited, an old Nautilus and a vintage steel Calatrava which lives in a safe.

    The Privee Collection Cartiers were certainly interesting watches. However, having owned many Cartiers over the last ten years, I have noticed their quality and service slipping (though only in Asia - London and Paris boutique experiences are still amazing), and their servicing costs go up every single year. I find this simply usurious and will not abide the practice as a matter of principle.

    Funny you mention the TT1931, I just bought the Casa Fagliano edition last week to celebrate an occasion and am enamoured with it. It is the perfect Reverso in my opinion and distills the sporty nature of the original watch. The strap is nothing impressive though. As for Piaget, their gaudy designs that characterise the brand and the lacklustre finishing leave me unimpressed. I have examined pretty much their entire current output and still prefer my old Polo from the 90s, when they still had some elegance.

    If you read the famous TZ review of the cal 1120 online, the author speaks of the agricultural finishing in some parts of the movement. At VC prices (I know it is still considered cheap for them) I find this unacceptable and would rather go for a similar piece from JLC, or indeed, from myself.

    You are right that modern VC designs are quite staid. Only the Toledo from the Historiques collection impresses. In fact I considered acquiring the 1955 a month ago but after seeing it at the boutique felt the painted indices made it look ever so slightly... cheap. And the super small movement, which seems to typify modern day VC watches.
     
  5. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    

    I actually thought the 1931 is too big for my 7 plus inch wrist, probably the only factor I dislike about it. But I have always preferred slim elegant watches anyway.

    Still hunting for a red dial vintage Reverso from 1931...
     
  6. vincefb

    vincefb Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
  7. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hi B,

    Yes, the 1955 escaped me and I never really liked the coin watch so its just not on my radar. I think our tastes and opinions (other than on the JLC 1931) may differ quite a bit. I am not really in love with most current VCs. I've tried the 1955 and the 1968, and thought both were very unimpressive and overpriced. One of the few of the Historique models I really like is the such as 1921 American (although I'm not sure how I feel about its movement). The Aronde is interesting but I don't think I like it enought that I would ever buy one. Overall, I'm just not in love with most modern VCs. These days their prices seem to overshadow and outweigh the quality of their items. As for the Toledo, I only like in its earlier handwound remake from the early 1990s when I believe it was just called the Carree. I don't care for the current version, I find it too clumsy and bulkie, and I don't care for its dial.

    I think VC's vintage pieces are definitely under appreciated and under valued both in terms of quality and price. I also think many were more daring and beautiful in design, than what we see today. A friend of mine had a collection of more than 30 vintage VCs and each was really special, interesting in design, and incredibly high quality. My only issue with them is, although I'm not someone that feels I have to have a giant watch to follow the current watch market designs, some of the vintage models are a bit on the small side.

    As for the Privee Cartiers, they are nothing like the standard models of the past 10 years. They are also more finely finished than their few higher quality non-ETA movment watches which were part of their mainstream collection. Each use incredibly high quality base movements from JLC, THA, F.Piguet, and Piaget, and then they are finished to Cartier's own standards. As for quality I would put them against any top brands. Lange and Patek are the only ones that are definitely still more finely finished. However, that still leaves them in very distinguished company. As for the cost of service on a basic time only piece, they are significantly less than Rolex or the high end brands. The few Cartier servicings on basic watches that my family has had done, ran about $450 (although the last was about 3 years ago). I don't think you can get a Rolex serviced for under $600.

    Regarding Piaget, I think the 90s was a dark time for them. Clumsy designs that often were not memorable such as the Tanagra. I think the Polo of the 90s was interesting but I didn't see why it got that name as it had no relation to the original in terms of design. Although I don't own one, I do have a soft spot in my heart for some of their vintage dress watches with stone dials. Yes, there are some flashy and unwearable Piagets, but JLC, Zenith, Patek, VC, AP are not innocent of having produced some strange designs and/or goofy, blingy jeweled pieces. As for their quality, I think I disagree with you there. Again its another brand that from what I've seen produces pieces that are definitely on par with JLC, AP, VC. Patek may have finer finshing and IMHO, only Lange really finishes their pieces in a manor that is beautiful and well beyond the others. My friend who has had more than 30 VCs (most vintage), APs, a Lange Datograph, (not sure he has had a Patek) and currently has a tourbillion from and independent (and he has been to many of the watch factories) has a Piaget Altiplano with subdial for seconds at 10, on his short list. He is also of the opinion that they are every bit as good as any of the top Swiss brands. I'm not a watchmaker, but he practically could be. He can easily get into and explain some of the more technical issues about movements, that could easily put some seasoned collectors too sleep. He has also done quite a bit of writing about movements and watches.

    As for the 1120, I am not that pleased with what VC has been doing with their versions. I think AP has done a much better job in terms of quality and finish of their version which is cal 2120. To be honest, although I am not really in love with AP's dress watches, I think their quality these days is a notch above many current VCs.

    Well at least we can agree on the JLC 1931. Congrats on your latest acquisition! That's a watch that I think JLC really did an amazing job with. The strap doesn't matter to me, I could take it or leave it. The rest of the watch is ideal. I know some here find it small, but I find the Reverso case just loses some of its beauty and elegance, and becomes too thick and more sport watch when you get into the XGT cases. IMHO, at least on my wrist the 1931, looks and feels perfect. Congrats again, an excellent choice I hope that you will enjoy for many years.
     
  8. RAYZ-ACE

    RAYZ-ACE Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    I realize its not the most expensive watch or fancy, but its my first watch and wanted to share :)

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    ^
    Congrats and enjoy it. It might be your first watch...but once you get bitten by the bug...there is a second, third, fourth etc.[​IMG]
     
  10. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    

    It's a good start. Kudos!

    Vintage Movados are pretty cool if you collect vintage. Check out the Ermeto purse watch.
     
  11. ~ B ~

    ~ B ~ Senior member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    

    Hi Dino,

    No worries about a difference in opinion or taste. We can all agree to disagree, especially on a topic as subjective as watches. Actually from much of what you've written I actually think we have pretty similar aesthetic tastes, but differ only on opinions on technical issues. For example, like you, I prefer tank or tonneau shaped watches for dress as well, as they are more interesting.

    Likewise with you, I find myself unimpressed by the majority of current VCs, even the Metier d'Árt collection. For enamel dials from European watch brands, I prefer Van Cleef watches which are made by Agenhor. The 1955 left me feeling the vintage cal 1003 watches were made much better, and the 1962 is quite ugly imho.

    The Toledo dial is also a little busy, but the case is just so voluptuous, rekindling the image of the old Cioccolatone.

    If you think vintage VCs were daring (which they were!), look at Rolex's vintage output. It makes their current models look utterly staid and unadventurous.

    Oh no, I understand that the Privee Collection is finished to a higher standard and was marketed as their marquee pieces. I checked out a friend's mono-poussoir with the THA movement and thought it was nice, but that I would rather have other watches for the money. I have a Cartier with the Piguet movement (though not CPC) and it is, suffice to say, badly made and finished. I think there are still several brands apart from Lange and Patek that could exceed Cartier.

    As for Cartier servicing, seems it is a lot cheaper in the States. In Asia, it can run 2 to 3 times the amount you mentioned. I was quoted the price you mentioned to change the battery on my Cartier quartz travel clock!

    I handled the Altiplano with the subdial at 4 o clock, but disliked it for the huge 43mm case and some imperfections on the dial printing. I find the latter unacceptable on a watch of this price level. Also played with the Double Jeu and some of their öne-off piece uniques, but just find their designs a little gauche. I agree with you that several other brands produce gaudy designs. But Piaget just seems to only produce ugly watches. Of course this is my opinion. I think their movement finishing is fine for the price but when I buy a watch, the dial matters just as much.

    Of course, the AP 2120 was a special product made just for the ref 15202, so I figured they would put in more effort. It is also more "in-house" now, if that matters.

    Thank you! I love the Reverso 1931 and it is one of the watches I wear quite regularly. I commissioned a bespoke light tan gator strap a few days back for it so the Casa Fag strap is no issue. It is not small at all, in fact I find it a tad long. But I have always preferred vintage watch sizes even though I have a large wrist. The Tribute case is even thinner than the original Reverso.

    Cheers,

    B
     
  12. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    RAYZ-ACE - very classy. and like dino said, its only a matter of time....
     
  13. RAYZ-ACE

    RAYZ-ACE Active Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Thank you :), i'm very happy with it, i dont expect to have many watches, but i wouldn't mind another one some day.
    :), i actually did look into vintage watches, but i'm not the most knowledgeable about watches and wouldn't know what to look for to ensure it was good condition or authentic, but thanks I'll def check Ermeto next time.
    Thank you :) , i wanted a watch that would age well, and i could wear for both casual and dressy

     
  14. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hi B,

    VC's Metier d'Árt collection has never really been of much interest to me. I like the case of the Toledo, but I find it too large in its current form. The smaller size old manual wind Carree/Toledo from the 1990s, or even the automatic time only version that followed had better proportions IMHO.

    Interesting that you have a NON-Collection Privee Cartier with a Piguet movement that you feel is poorly finished. I have only seen a few models of NON Privee Cartier's with Piguet movements, and as each was significantly less than $7,000, their finish was good but not great. They were certainly not up to the level of their Privee watches or their new Fine Watchmaking Collection. The Tortue mono-poussoir, was a pricey watch when new. However, the single pusher chronograph movement is brillant. A friend of mine has one and I've always thought it was a great chronograph. It is also one of the few Cartiers that a few brand name snobs I've known (who usually only buy PP, AP, and VC) have said they intend to track one down at some point to add to their collections. However, I can understand if its not your taste and there are other watches you find more appealing. Sticking with major brands (not independents), I'll agree that yes, I maybe AP can and does exceed some of Cartier's high end models...most other brands at the high end I find are about the same.

    I've looked at several Piagets and never seen any that had problems with their dials, even when using a loupe. However, in that price range as you said there is not excuse for a watch with a poorly printed dial. The 43mm Altiplano is too wide and flat for my taste. It starts to look like a pancake on a strap. The Double Jeu is fun, but not my taste. I still think the manual wind Altiplano with or without the subdial for seconds represents a great value for its cost...and I would choose one over a similarly styled JLC...but thats personal choice. I also think their Emperador Toubillon is a beautiful watch with an amazing rectangular movement...but again thats just my 2 cents.

    Glad to hear you are enjoying your 1931 Reverso. Its my favorite designs of the last few years, and if I were buying a JLC it most liley would be that model. I've tried it and the case, dial, and the way it wears is perfect. Its definitely something that I could be very tempted to pick up in the future.

    Best regards,
    Dino
     
  15. Hayward

    Hayward Senior member

    Messages:
    2,515
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    a customer wants to sell this to us. anyone have any idea of the market on it? we dont really deal so much with vintage pieces like this.

    thanks.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  17. Dino944

    Dino944 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,662
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    ^
    Vintage stuff can be a tough sell unless its a big name brand.
     
  18. DerekS

    DerekS Senior member

    Messages:
    8,591
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Location:
    Nashville
    looks odd to me...ive never seen a vintage Jaeger watch...they've always been branded just LeCoultre. Id be interested if anyone has any insight into this. When did they go from LeCoultre to JLC? and did they ever produce Jaeger only branded watches.
     
  19. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    yeah, i did some investigating, we are going to pass. thanks, dino.
     
  20. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    68,895
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Location:
    Charm City
    

    in my investigating, i see they defo did make watches just branded "jaeger."

    as to the change over, i once knew all that history, but i forgot. :(

    this is from wikipedia. 1937 was the official change to JLC, even though Edmond Jaeger became involved with lecoulture earlier on.

     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by